Armor of the Inferno.

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
bibotot
Level 2
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu 19 Feb, 2015 11:35 pm

Armor of the Inferno.

Postby bibotot » Thu 19 Feb, 2015 11:51 pm

This wargear is insane against Imperial Guards who have nothing to resist. The Lord General's buff don't make them resilient enough to tank it. I have many times lost entire squads of Guardsmen, including the Sergeant to a single Let the Galaxy Burn. Even Stormtroopers and Karskins will take like 50% damage from that. Unlike Nobxious Cloud, this ability is harder to spot and does not cost any Red.

I would love to see a nerf for this, either in range, damage upon hit or removal of knocking back capability.
User avatar
Indrid
Moderator
Posts: 898
Joined: Mon 04 Feb, 2013 5:06 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Indrid » Fri 20 Feb, 2015 1:23 am

It's already been nerfed, I think more than once. I don't know how you're losing entire squads to it unless they were already very damaged or you stood around inside the DoT. It's usually used for area denial or to set-up a push, not outright kill stuff. With LG you can use "Move! Move! Move!" to run away and "Incoming!" to give your stuff knockback immunity and a resist, as long as you use it before the fire hits. LG is pretty good at working around it really. You shouldn't "tank it", move away.
User avatar
Dark Riku
Level 5
Posts: 3082
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 10:48 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Dark Riku » Fri 20 Feb, 2015 1:25 am

This things is already nerfed in Elite. This is be more of a L2P issue than anything else.
Use a chimera to hop in, or retreat in time, with the CL leader upgrade you won't even lose map presence.
User avatar
Nurland
Moderator
Posts: 1343
Joined: Mon 04 Feb, 2013 5:25 pm
Location: Eye of Error
Contact:

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Nurland » Fri 20 Feb, 2015 7:55 am

Yeah. Transport micro and retreat + execute are the best ways to avoid LTGB. Also, you have some time to dodge the LTGB if it is fired at a longer range so you shouldn't take too big of a hit.
#noobcodex
User avatar
Torpid
Moderator
Posts: 3536
Joined: Sat 01 Jun, 2013 12:09 pm
Location: England, Leeds

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Torpid » Fri 20 Feb, 2015 8:13 am

The only change I'de make to LTGB is increasing its minimum range. Just because it can be a bit silly how effective it is vs things like melta stormtroopers, shotgun scouts, fire dragons or just a melee squad when it is used at near point blank range. At that distance it is impossible to dodge and the damage it does, even with the elite nerfs, is very high.
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
Cheah18
Level 3
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat 28 Dec, 2013 4:45 pm

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Cheah18 » Fri 20 Feb, 2015 2:30 pm

Yeah its effect on IG is prettu huge but IG find everything hard.
User avatar
egewithin
Level 5
Posts: 1144
Joined: Mon 26 Jan, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby egewithin » Fri 20 Feb, 2015 3:04 pm

Here is a fact : Generally everything is hard for an IG player. Specially Chaos and Orks. There are harder problems than LTGB.

Noise Marines : You can't just hit them with your wall of lasguns. Needed to be tied up in melee but there will be a lot o stuff to kill your weak melee heroes.

Choosen Plague Marines : They just don't die you know. You need something like 2 autocannons and full-upgraded GM to shoot them down. You are welcome.

Khorne Dread : You MUST have melta ST other wise you will have a machine wants to hug your men.

Bloodleters, Blood Chrusher, Predator with every mark, Havocs, Raptors, ... Pretty much everything counters IG very well in Chaos army. Why did you care about LTGB that much?
TSG
Level 1
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat 23 Aug, 2014 4:23 pm

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby TSG » Fri 20 Feb, 2015 3:22 pm

Because you can react to all the mentioned things in a timely matter, the LTGB is a instant nuke that takes out 8/12 GM models
User avatar
Dark Riku
Level 5
Posts: 3082
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 10:48 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Dark Riku » Fri 20 Feb, 2015 3:49 pm

You can easily react to LTGB too. It is far from being an instant ability and the CL rotation speed has been lowered recently. And you definitely can't compare it to a nuke.
User avatar
Nurland
Moderator
Posts: 1343
Joined: Mon 04 Feb, 2013 5:25 pm
Location: Eye of Error
Contact:

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Nurland » Fri 20 Feb, 2015 4:12 pm

+1 to Riku
#noobcodex
TSG
Level 1
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat 23 Aug, 2014 4:23 pm

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby TSG » Fri 20 Feb, 2015 5:22 pm

Dark Riku wrote:You can easily react to LTGB too. It is far from being an instant ability and the CL rotation speed has been lowered recently. And you definitely can't compare it to a nuke.


Tell that to Guardsman Joe who just got KBd while taking dot dmg.
User avatar
Dark Riku
Level 5
Posts: 3082
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 10:48 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Dark Riku » Fri 20 Feb, 2015 5:26 pm

I rather tell Joe to L2P.
TSG
Level 1
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat 23 Aug, 2014 4:23 pm

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby TSG » Fri 20 Feb, 2015 6:17 pm

Dark Riku wrote:I rather tell Joe to L2P.


Take it easy gamemaster, I'm sure you are a God at this game. You are right, LGTB is fine, l2p.
User avatar
Sub_Zero
Suspended
Posts: 915
Joined: Wed 16 Oct, 2013 4:12 pm

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Sub_Zero » Fri 20 Feb, 2015 7:25 pm

Honestly this ability is overpowered. I don't think it will be fixed. Need to learn to play around it. I would advise you to don't give a fuck about dodging it (or learn to do that, not that hard against most players who use the ability right away and this way they make it really predictable), just wait when he uses it, then retreat, then execute members.

Close range LTGB (honestly there are a lot of abilities that overperform when they can be used this close to the hero who casts it) is bullshit. Fix this at least.

Just one tip - keep a sharp eye on his energy bar, once it starts to change you already should be repositioning.
User avatar
Dark Riku
Level 5
Posts: 3082
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 10:48 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Dark Riku » Sat 21 Feb, 2015 10:36 pm

TSG wrote:Take it easy gamemaster, I'm sure you are a God at this game. You are right, LGTB is fine, l2p.
Apology accepted.
User avatar
Ven
Level 3
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed 27 Aug, 2014 5:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Ven » Sun 22 Feb, 2015 12:24 am

I'm sure you are a God at this game


Image
Image

My Twitch where i occasionally stream myself pwning/getting pwned on elite mod, i seem to bounce between the two on a game to game basis. - http://www.Twitch.tv/Venkitsune
User avatar
Ven
Level 3
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed 27 Aug, 2014 5:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Ven » Sun 22 Feb, 2015 12:25 am

Really though. LTGB is fine, it got a lot of nerfs already. it's deadly if combo-ed with something else, but thats kinda the
CLs thing

firatwithin wrote:
Khorne Dread : You MUST have melta ST other wise you will have a machine wants to hug your men.



well first i would ask why a chaos player would get MoK on a dread vs IG unless its specifically to tackle Ogryns and secondly, a lascannon would do much, MUCH better at killing melee walkers than melta storms. melta storms are almost only used to hunting down manticores and getting behind vehicles for a sneaky attack. the lascannons snare is invaluable vs melee walkers, not to mention it does more AV damage, is cheaper than melta storms AND bleeds less.
Image

My Twitch where i occasionally stream myself pwning/getting pwned on elite mod, i seem to bounce between the two on a game to game basis. - http://www.Twitch.tv/Venkitsune
Cheah18
Level 3
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat 28 Dec, 2013 4:45 pm

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Cheah18 » Sun 22 Feb, 2015 12:36 am

Its not that the abilty is overpowered it just again comes down to chaos having some chea as **** one-click trololol abilities that toddlers can use.
User avatar
egewithin
Level 5
Posts: 1144
Joined: Mon 26 Jan, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby egewithin » Sun 22 Feb, 2015 2:56 pm

Ven wrote:Really though. LTGB is fine, it got a lot of nerfs already. it's deadly if combo-ed with something else, but thats kinda the
CLs thing

firatwithin wrote:
Khorne Dread : You MUST have melta ST other wise you will have a machine wants to hug your men.



well first i would ask why a chaos player would get MoK on a dread vs IG unless its specifically to tackle Ogryns and secondly, a lascannon would do much, MUCH better at killing melee walkers than melta storms. melta storms are almost only used to hunting down manticores and getting behind vehicles for a sneaky attack. the lascannons snare is invaluable vs melee walkers, not to mention it does more AV damage, is cheaper than melta storms AND bleeds less.


Because, a melee walker is always a threat to IG. Deal with it. I love sending a bloodrage Dread and see GM flee away. Also, tieing up a lascannon is not the hardest thing to do for me. In the other hand, melta ST helps great against normal infantry of Chaos too. I even can get melta ST witout a vehicle treat if only I play IQ. Because fun. Thats it.
User avatar
Torpid
Moderator
Posts: 3536
Joined: Sat 01 Jun, 2013 12:09 pm
Location: England, Leeds

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Torpid » Sun 22 Feb, 2015 3:41 pm

firatwithin wrote:
Because, a melee walker is always a threat to IG. Deal with it. I love sending a bloodrage Dread and see GM flee away. Also, tieing up a lascannon is not the hardest thing to do for me. In the other hand, melta ST helps great against normal infantry of Chaos too. I even can get melta ST witout a vehicle treat if only I play IQ. Because fun. Thats it.


*facepalm*

Melee walkers are useless vs IG. Between having the highest dps lascannons, ogryns, catachans with their melta, sentinel missles (that one is a big deal with melee walkers), manticores and all of their heroes having AV too... No, you really don't want a melee walker vs IG.

There are far more efficient ways of killing GM. Like a Tdread which butchers them from afar and kills chimeras and aids vs lemans.
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
User avatar
Ven
Level 3
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed 27 Aug, 2014 5:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Ven » Sun 22 Feb, 2015 3:52 pm

+1 to what torpid just said

while melee walkers are always a threat to any race, IG has the best ways of dealing with melee walkers, such as lascannon weapon teams + other AV... if you JUST get melta storms you're obviosuly going to get pressured by melee walkers because melta storms aren't enough to deal with a melee walker unless your opponent is braindead.

on the other hand, a lascannon HWT can kill a walker easily if you can catch it unawares. if your HWT gets jumped; counter initiate with ogryns, sentinel stomp, catachans, any of the IG heros, or even just large ammounts of lasgun fire.
Image

My Twitch where i occasionally stream myself pwning/getting pwned on elite mod, i seem to bounce between the two on a game to game basis. - http://www.Twitch.tv/Venkitsune
User avatar
egewithin
Level 5
Posts: 1144
Joined: Mon 26 Jan, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby egewithin » Sun 22 Feb, 2015 6:49 pm

Yes, but if the IG player has all of these AV, I'm glad to loose my Dread. That means he doesn't have enough AI for me. Also, all of these threads can be solved.

As I said earlier, tieing up HWT is not too hard. I can send my raptor or BLetter to them. Also, if he has lascannon, thats good cause he has no supperrition anymore so I can go for more melee even.

If he has Catachan Devils, I will tie them up with Dreads it self. My CSM and tics are good enough to handle a bunch of GM.

In case of melta ST, first I will kill ST with my rest army to force them as soon as I can. After that, I can unleash my Dread to hug them.

In case of Orgyns : I will send all my power to them. Bloodrage + focus fire + powermelee + ... How tough can they ever be :P After I force of Orgyns, I can handle rest of the stuff.

If he has every kind of AV, well, damm it. But if he had enough time to build all of these, I should be able to bring some stuff eather. I haven't said anything about my heroes, speally Sorcerrer. I just don't have Dread guys, he is not alone. Okay damm it I will always go for Tzeentch no matter what.

Or forget the Dread, I have Noise Marines. Yeah, half of the problems can be solved with Noise Marines. I will go for 3 NM next time. 2 blastmaster supported with Nurgle shrine, 1 NM without upgrade. Yeah hail for Slaanesh!
Cheah18
Level 3
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat 28 Dec, 2013 4:45 pm

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Cheah18 » Sun 22 Feb, 2015 6:56 pm

firatwithin wrote:Yes, but if the IG player has all of these AV, I'm glad to loose my Dread. That means he doesn't have enough AI for me. Also, all of these threads can be solved.


Nah IG will still gib because only the Lascannon is SOLELY AV. The rest are dually functional (hero, sent, catas, Ogryns). Tying up a lascannon is hard because of its range and shield... Any unit that tries to get close will likely be stfdown. It doesn't look like you quite understand the huge dps (and anti-melee capability) IG can have at this stage.
User avatar
egewithin
Level 5
Posts: 1144
Joined: Mon 26 Jan, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby egewithin » Sun 22 Feb, 2015 7:39 pm

Cheah18 wrote:
firatwithin wrote:Yes, but if the IG player has all of these AV, I'm glad to loose my Dread. That means he doesn't have enough AI for me. Also, all of these threads can be solved.


Nah IG will still gib because only the Lascannon is SOLELY AV. The rest are dually functional (hero, sent, catas, Ogryns). Tying up a lascannon is hard because of its range and shield... Any unit that tries to get close will likely be stfdown. It doesn't look like you quite understand the huge dps (and anti-melee capability) IG can have at this stage.


Actually, I remembered this fact after I wrote it. None shall blame me with ignorance.
User avatar
Nurland
Moderator
Posts: 1343
Joined: Mon 04 Feb, 2013 5:25 pm
Location: Eye of Error
Contact:

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Nurland » Sun 22 Feb, 2015 7:46 pm

Ehh... Melee walkers are quite crappy against any IG player who has any idea what hevis doing. Ranged walkers (AC Dread and Tdread) are generally the things that really poop on IG
#noobcodex
Cheah18
Level 3
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat 28 Dec, 2013 4:45 pm

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Cheah18 » Sun 22 Feb, 2015 8:09 pm

AC dread does and should. The Tdread is just OP
enasni127
Level 2
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu 08 Jan, 2015 11:13 am

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby enasni127 » Mon 23 Feb, 2015 8:29 am

wow, according to this thread IG must be very op and highly favoured vs chaos. Somehow the last 1400 hours of playing IG taught me that this match up is utter crap for IG and especially in 1v1's hard to win.

Chaos has so many abilities and units which just force you to retreat or get backup or are sooo versatile that they can just counter everything you throw in with ease and on top you get your face melted by LTGB or the noobxious cloud.

And as IG you are not even save in your base cause it happens quite often that chaos dreads just storm your base and kill your troops and just gets teleported out with 1-5hp left by this crazy sorc ability.

And, just cause someone said it before, wtf will ig do vs plaque marine champions? You really need hours to get them down in most situations.

Imo playing chaos is just easy-mode dow2. Your troops are very versatile, strong and easy to use PLUS you don't need to take risks to win - you just teleport away or nurgle-heal everything.

Don't get me wrong, I don't say CSM is op in general but it is for sure an easy-to-play faction which has many tools which can be very annoying for blobby-squishy factions like IG
User avatar
Nurland
Moderator
Posts: 1343
Joined: Mon 04 Feb, 2013 5:25 pm
Location: Eye of Error
Contact:

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Nurland » Mon 23 Feb, 2015 2:55 pm

No one in this topic has claimed that the MU favors IG. T3 does favor IG imho. But that is generally a short late game part of the game.
#noobcodex
User avatar
Superhooper01
Level 3
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue 11 Mar, 2014 2:27 pm
Location: Chilling on Bubonicus

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby Superhooper01 » Wed 25 Feb, 2015 9:05 pm

Nurland summed it up. Il admit it still strong against guard but as indrid said early on been nerfed so just try split your units bit more and keep a eye on the CL.
There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods."
lolzarz
Level 3
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu 06 Mar, 2014 11:17 am
Location: Terra

Re: Armor of the Inferno.

Postby lolzarz » Thu 26 Feb, 2015 12:50 am

Don't clump against Chaos. Every single one of their heroes have splash damage abilities that deal high damage against infantry. Spreading out also makes it harder for noise marines to shut down all your infantry.
WEE AR DA SPEHSS MAHREENS! WE AR DA EMPRAH'S FUREH!

Return to “Balance Discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests