(retouch) suggestion buff gk and nuff eldar

[karnakkardak]

1. ALL power sword(or weapon) cannot peneterate super heavy infantry armor (meaning no additional damage) and ALL gk brethren now have super heavy infantry armor type.

2. when eldar use fleet of foot, boost speed 3-> 2.

this is just suggestion.

[Ace of Swords]

[Black Relic]

You need to give a reason on WHY Caeltos should even consider your suggestion.

[Caeltos]

[Atlas]

These are truly revolutionary buffs from a brilliant individual. However, it doesn't go far enough. In addition, I suggest we:

1) increase webway cost to 200 red, no infiltrate
2) remove nids from game entirely
3) give Chaos Lord +2 speed
4) give sentinel vehicle armor
5) revert drop pod, but make it reinforce terminators and be a retreat point

Only then will this game truly be barranced.

[Vapor]

Give gk rhino vehicle armor in t1 but reduce hp to 25.

[BaptismByLoli]

Banshees too OP nerf pl0x? Decrease health, melee skill, damage and movement speed

Strike Squad too UP buff pl0x? Increase melee skill, melee damage and ranged damage

[lolzarz]

I actually agree with the power sword thing. Currently, melee does full damage to a model with heavy armor, while power melee gets a 1.3 modifier. As a result, if 2 otherwise identical models fight each other with power swords, the model with more armor dies first. It doesn't make sense that wearing more armor makes models die faster in melee. As such, I recommend that normal melee deal less damage to heavy infantry (like it currently does against super-heavy infantry) and power melee deal full damage against all infantry.

I still don't get the rationale behind drop pods not reinforcing terminators. They're slow enough. Would someone mind explaining it to me?

[Torpid]

Nuff eldar, 'nuff said.

[krimson]

The way he put the suggestions are abrupt. The speed thing is probably not required. But as someone said...extra damage against heavy armor is a poor design choice. Let me explain this as follows:

1. Wearing heavy armor cannot be a penalty in terms of damage you take. Yes it can make you slow and make u carry less damaging weapons. All that SM suffers from and should do. Normal melee should do less damage and power melee should do normal damage.

Currently heavy armor is not really useful as everyone gets power melee and then the armour with all its cons do not really have any pros.

[BaptismByLoli]

Heavy Infantry armour already reduces piercing_pvp damage from 1 to 0.67. That, combined with cover can make Heavy Infantry armour pretty good in ranged firefights.

To help compensate for this nice little advantage in ranged combat, power_melee_pvp should be able to inflict extra damage.

[Tsototar]

It doesn't make sense that wearing more armor makes models die faster in melee.

Wearing heavy armor cannot be a penalty in terms of damage you take.

At Agincourt the French knights found their heavy armour a real penalty against the lighter-armoured English...

[Cheekie Monkie]

Please add in the Exterminatus global for 999 red:

Destroys the whole battlefield and everything in it, ending the game in a draw.

It doesn't make sense that wearing more armor makes models die faster in melee.

Wearing heavy armor cannot be a penalty in terms of damage you take.

At Agincourt the French knights found their heavy armour a real penalty against the lighter-armoured English...

Nerf English, buff Frenchies

[BaptismByLoli]

At Agincourt the French knights found their heavy armour a real penalty against the lighter-armoured English...

Nerf Longbowman
Buff French Knights
... pl0x?

[Dalakh]

At Agincourt the French knights found their heavy armour a real penalty against the lighter-armoured English...

Nerf Longbowman
Buff French Knights
... pl0x?

Some might argue that their only real penalty was their own pride and stupidity.

[BaptismByLoli]

Some might argue that their only real penalty was their own pride and stupidity.

Nerf Logic
Buff Arrogance
Win-Win

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

[lolzarz]

It doesn't make sense that wearing more armor makes models die faster in melee.

Wearing heavy armor cannot be a penalty in terms of damage you take.

At Agincourt the French knights found their heavy armour a real penalty against the lighter-armoured English...

Tell me again how the English longbowmen killed the French in melee combat. Oh no wait, they hid behind cover and shot at the French with arrows. Tell me again how the French knights' heavy armor made them die in melee. No wait, they got stuck in the mud and were shot down. The reply has so many mistakes it is a compliment to call it wrong.

[Nurland]

Imho what makes (super) heavy infantry usually is a combination of higher health pool per model AND the armor dmg modifiers. Not only the dmg modifiers.

And no more arguments about medieval warfare, please.

[Barrogh]

Tell me again how the English longbowmen killed the French in melee combat. Oh no wait, they hid behind cover and shot at the French with arrows. Tell me again how the French knights' heavy armor made them die in melee. No wait, they got stuck in the mud and were shot down. The reply has so many mistakes it is a compliment to call it wrong.

Relax, it's 40k. In a world of swords that cut metal as easy as your hand goes through air heavy armor only prevents you from manoeuvring and does nothing else.
Yes, it doesn't fit with APA fluff, but who cares. We are arguing about balance using fluff right now, can as well go full retard and never look back.

Nerf Logic
Buff Arrogance
Win-Win

And so Warhammer 40 000 universe was born.

[saltychipmunk]

all you need to do to make gk better is:

1: give a reason to buy the upgrades on the ist (currently there barely is one out side the mandatory detector vs niche infiltration tactics). their standard setup is by far and away the most economically viable setup.

2:give Strikes some useful upgrades, apart from the justicar and his long as fuck cool down support abilities, the trikes compose some of the worst upgrade combinations in the game bar none.

3 give the gk something more than a one-dimensional t3 revolving around slow terminators , and a really bad landraider.

4 interceptors have no business being more expensive than asm , they dont have t1 disruption, gk should not have to wait longer to get a unit the explicitly does less. and no the extra damage they do does not make up for it . and never will.

DONE!

[Batpimp]

1. ALL power sword(or weapon) cannot peneterate heavy infantry armor (meaning no additional damage) and ALL gk brethren now have heavy infantry armor type.

2. when eldar use fleet of foot, boost speed 3-> 2.

this is just suggestion.

QUE?!?

Disclaimer :

karnakkardak

Posts: 2

Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:18 am

Display skill rating: Disabled

everything in bold tells you all you need to know

[Arbit]

Imho what makes (super) heavy infantry usually is a combination of higher health pool per model AND the armor dmg modifiers. Not only the dmg modifiers.

And no more arguments about medieval warfare, please.

WINNAR

Even when you factor in the extra damage from power melee, tacs have better effective HP on a per model basis than pretty much anything in T1, not to mention they are a ranged unit with melee resist.

I think you could make an argument that heavy armor is a disadvantage in T2 because plasma and power melee is just freaking everywhere... I think this is a legacy of the dreaded tac blob from back in the day, as well as the fact that power melee is given to units not because there is a clear unit counter in mind, but simply because power melee is cool and no one wants to buy a t2/t3 unit or wargear and only have it do "normal" damage (again, that's more of a Relic legacy/40k issue than anything specifically wrong with the Elite mod (also also, probably an issue with commander armor getting a 0.7 modifier against normal melee and 1.0 vs power melee). Havocs and devs get kinda screwed because they have the armor damage modifiers but not the HP, so you see stuff like devs getting obliterated by grenades whereas a loota would've survived.

You could "fix" the issue by giving heavy armor a dmg reduction against regular melee and 1.0 modifier against power melee, but then you're going to have to readjust damage and HP values for their counters unless you want to see tacs (and wraithguard! and nobs! etc) beating their counters in melee, which involves a whole shitload of rebalancing to make underlying damage numbers that aren't really visible ingame work more intuitively.

[lolzarz]

Unfortunately, power melee, as you said, is already goddamn everywhere. Eldar Banshees get power melee in T1. Ork Stormboyz get power melee in T1. Imperial Guard Catachans... not quite on that level, but still power melee in T1 on a squad with 2 sources of knockback. Tyranids get warriors, who can get a suppression weapon without setting up and without losing the power melee. There are so many power melee units in T2 it'd be easier to name the ones that deal normal melee.

It gives assault marines, Mark of Khorne chaos space marines and other heavy infantry melee units a disadvantage because they get a armor type that does nothing but hinder survivability. The armor is actually decent at getting them into melee, but it greatly hinders them once they get there. Tactical space marines... in a way, but see power melee list above. For killing ranged heavy infantry, you also get plasma weapons and other assorted armor-piercing damage types like psychic damage, inferno damage, etc. which are very abundant in T2.

Wraithguard will never beat anyone who is hardier than a stormtrooper in melee combat due to no melee resistance and pitiful melee damage. Just reduce health on nobs already!

And then we get back to the problem that half the units on the battlefield (maybe more) get power melee weapons. That's the reason heavy armor is such a disadvantage in melee combat because more often than not, the other side has at least 1 power weapon in their squad. And I don't get how power armor protects against melee to the same degree as flak armor or no armor. Or maybe we could go the other way and make normal melee wreck normal infantry. Something that gives an advantage to wearing heavy armor in melee combat.

[Tsototar]

And no more arguments about medieval warfare, please.

ok off-topic (sorry) but I really got to say here (this is important!) -

Tell me again how the English longbowmen killed the French in melee combat. Oh no wait, they hid behind cover and shot at the French with arrows. Tell me again how the French knights' heavy armor made them die in melee. No wait, they got stuck in the mud and were shot down. The reply has so many mistakes it is a compliment to call it wrong.

actually you're wrong here (you can PM me if you want details). The longbows forced the knights off their horses (by killing them). after that it was in fact a melee fight on foot, whereupon the knights' plate really screwed them because of the mud + fighting with all that weight led to heat exhaustion etc. - when fighting enemies in heavy armour you don't try to punch THROUGH the plate btw, you go for weak spots (under arms, joints of plates etc.) that the added weight make them less flexible to defend, most of the slaughter was on foot, at close range, by lightly armoured English running around with short stabbing weapons, with the knights unable to retreat when pushed, and unable to chase when the English pulled back - people would lunge in, stab, pull back as the knights flailed with their swords, unable to reach them, and then repeat until the knights got tired.

(I'm not saying no knights died from bows, but that it's primary tactical effect was to force them off the horses. plate armour is actually pretty good at stopping arrows + don't forget they also have shields (again, more weight). So the longbows did in fact "win the battle" because if not for them, they would've faced mounted knights which as I understand it really, really sucks for a footman).

[lolzarz]

Checked on Wikipedia. You are right that the English archers had lighter armor and it was a partial advantage against the French. But the French, unlike assault marines, couldn't fly and weren't supermen with motorized suits of armor.

[Tsototar]

And banshees are alien witches wielding blades infused with eldritch energies, that slice through armour and (if we're looking for reasons here) cause additional damage with all the molten metal it leaves in the wounds after they're done cutting.

Anyways if you want to be outraged you're better off getting angry ASM can lose to catachans in melee. Unarmoured, non-genetically engineered humans with KNIVES.

You're just not as excited by them because IG has more counters than Eldar so it sticks less in your mind than shees


(So, no more "compliment to call it wrong", eh? You need to consider you might not know as much as you're confident you do, even about major historical events like Agincourt. There's quite a lot more scholarly information about the battle than Wikipedia BTW; its a really interesting battle)

[krimson]

heavy infantry gives higher health and better armor against ranged damage. However, due to the abundance of power weapons, it is extremely disadvantageous for people wearing heavy armor. Lets think..sm suffers from slow speed low damage and expensive squad all for heavy armor which is good agaisnt normal ranged damage. but your enemy will simply not make normal range..comes with rangers banshees dark reapers and others..what happens is tacs get penalized for higher damage and slower speed all owing to their heavy armor.

Now if the damage modifier was kept at 1.0 against power melee and increased by 0.1 for normal melee..then heavy armor will have some benefit.

right now there are so many power melee and range weapons that heavy armor does not serve much purpose...
all ready slow speed and low damage balances their high damage output.

[Dark Riku]

and a really bad landraider.

You're joking here, right? The LRC gives HP and energy Regen and has the most HP out of all vehicles.
It's also a very effective anti-infantry behemoth.

Havocs and devs get kinda screwed because they have the armor damage modifiers but not the HP, so you see stuff like devs getting obliterated by grenades whereas a loota would've survived.

I've actually made a topic about this some time ago. I definitely think devs, and havocs to a lesser extent, should get and increase in HP.

Not like it's going to get the right attention in here though probably

[lolzarz]

And banshees are alien witches wielding blades infused with eldritch energies, that slice through armour and (if we're looking for reasons here) cause additional damage with all the molten metal it leaves in the wounds after they're done cutting.
Anyways if you want to be outraged you're better off getting angry ASM can lose to catachans in melee. Unarmoured, non-genetically engineered humans with KNIVES.
)

Eldar as a whole are not trained to release their psychic talent, except for the seers. Banshees are fast, agile aliens, but are NEVER witches. Same goes for the power swords. The catachans I know about, hence why I want to nerf power melee as a damage type. It really shouldn't happen.

[Caeltos]

I can't believe what I'm about to say.

Gabriel Gorgutz was right from the start.