T1 Health Disparities

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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Element
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T1 Health Disparities

Postby Element » Sat 24 Dec, 2022 5:47 pm

because nobody seems to want to count, or cares to recognize the truth here are in the numbers, which show the dispaities amongst the builds and why some factions are "over-performing" as if its like somehow takes a genius to see why. there are 2000+ hp health disparities in T1 after reasonable purchases and upgrades! with when you begin taking account upgrades for orks and eldar... of course they are both doing bad...and thats not taking into account sustainability aspects of having last model dieing properties across all factions. Not taking account the similarities of model numbers dealing out damage, fragility, speed across the faction, dont have dreads which come out with another 1200 hp which is more health than any counter they could muster actually has to reasonbly deal with it.

The game has moved from skill plays to who can muster more numbers with health disparities to break the game before the other player can respond because it takes next tier to reach still not even somewhat close to relatively balanced health..

Simply put we fix it, or the game is going to become rendered almost unplayable for these 2 factions.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tyranids
----------
1x- HIve Tyrant- 1050 w Improved Synapse- 1200
1x- Hormogaunts w adrenal glands- 640--> 704--> 880
2x- Temagaunts w cripplling toxins- 600--> 660--> 825 x2- 1650
1x- Warrior Brood- 1050
1x- Raveners-900--> 1125
----------
=5905

Lord Commissar- 600
-------------------------
-2x- guardsman w sergeant- 940 X2= 1880
-1x- Sentinel w Stomp- 750
-1x- Catachans- 1050
-1x- Heavy Weapons Team- 750
=====
=5030

Chaos
-------
1x- Chaos Lord- 1000 without a dark halo
3x- Cultist 2/3x- Champions- 600-->1020 + 600/1020
1x- CSM- 975
===========
4615- 5035

2x- IST- 1400
1x- Interecptors- 1200
1x- Commander- 950- Brother Captain
1x- Strikes- 1020
====
4570

Space Marines
-----------------
Techmarine w Bionics- 780
2x- Scouts w 2x Sergeants- 670x2- 1340
2x- Tacs- 2100
=============
4220

Orks
-----
1x- sluggas- 600
1x- Shootas w nob- 885
1x- mekboy-600
1x- lootas- 750
1x- painboy 700
====
2900

OR

1x- sluggas- 600
2x- Shootas w Nob- 885x 2- 1770
1x- Lootas- 750/Stormboys-850
====
3120
3220

Eldar
------
-Warpspider Exarch- 630
-3x- Dire Avengers- 500 x 3 w battle equipment 1800
-1x- Banshees w aaspects- 850
---------
-3280

or

-Warpspider Exarch- 630
1x- Dire Avengers w Battle equipment- 600
1x- Banshees w aspects- 850
2x- Shuriken Catapult Turret- 675 x 2=1350
====
3430
"The meaning of life is to have purpose, and the purpose of life is what you choose to make of it, in addition to what you come to understand along the way."

"Because I choose to."

"The humble person knows not everything, nor nothing at all, but certainly something worth knowing."
Antandron
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Re: T1 Health Disparities

Postby Antandron » Mon 26 Dec, 2022 10:27 am

This is such a reductive analysis. What about dps? Does that count for nothing?
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Element
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Re: T1 Health Disparities

Postby Element » Mon 26 Dec, 2022 4:45 pm

"Ranged Damage Comparisons"
--------------------------------------
(because that is the problem)
------------------------------------
Conclusion
-------------
So here are the calculations disclduing commanders and suppression teams. I.E. no orks and eldar do not have the most dps from their squads any more and they have the lowest health amongst the factions as well...

this is not even taking into account armor values which allow for further mitigation damage, and green cover.

O.M.
----
2x- IST- 1400
1x- Interecptors- 1200
1x- Commander- 950- Brother Captain
1x- Strikes- 1020

T1
--
1x- IST 6 x5- 41.99 dps w Sergeant- misleading do to their high burst

1x- IST 6 x5 41.99 dps w Sergeant- misleading do to their high burst

1x- Strikes- 9.6 x3 dps- 28.8- dps

1x- Interceptors- 9.09 x3 dps- 27.27 dps

====
4570

S.M.
----
2x- Scouts w 2x Sergeants- 670x 2- 1340
2x- Tacs- 2100

1x- Fully Upgraded T1 Scouts x 4- shotgunsx 4- 58.68 dps

1x- Fully Upgraded T1 Scouts x 4- shogtunsx 4- 58.68 dps

1x- Tacs- x3- 14.58- dps- 43,74 dps

1x- Tacs- x3- 14.58- dps- 43.74 dps

Tyranids
----------
1x- Hive Tyrant- 1050 w Improved Synapse- 1200
1x- Hormogaunts w adrenal glands- 640--> 704--> 880
2x- Temagaunts w cripplling toxins- 600--> 660--> 825 x2- 1650
1x- Warrior Brood- 1050
1x- Raveners-900--> 1125
----------
=5905

1x- Termagaunts x8- 4.04 x8- 32.32 w Crippling Toxins +30%- 42.016

1x- Termagaunts x8- 4.04 x8- 32.32 w Crippling Toxins +30%- 42.016

1x- Raveners x3- 19.19 x3- 57.57 dps

Lord Commissar- 600
-------------------------
-2x- guardsman w sergeant- 940 X2= 1880
-1x- Sentinel w Stomp- 750
-1x- Catachans- 1050
-1x- Heavy Weapons Team- 750
=====
=5030

I.G.
----
1x- guardsman w Sergeant (1+ 8) - 3 + 8x 4.12- 32.96

1x- guardsman w Sergeant (1+ 8) - 3 + 8x 4.12- 32.96

1x- Sentinel- 30 dps

1X- Catachans- 4/6 x12.94 - 51.75

Chaos
-------
1x- Chaos Lord- 1000 without a dark halo
3x- Cultist 2/3x- Champions- 600-->1020 + 600/1020
1x- CSM- 975
===========
4615- 5035

Example
-------
1x- Cultist- 2x- Grenade Launchers 4x 7.02- 28.08 gl 4x 5.42- 21.68 autoguns + Champion + 11.08= 60.84

1x- Cultist- 2x- Grenade Launchers 4x 7.02- 28.08 gl 4x 5.42- 21.68 autoguns + Champion + 11.08= 60.84

1x- CSM- 3x 13.42- 40.26

Eldar
------
-Warpspider Exarch- 630
-3x- Dire Avengers- 500 x 3 w battle equipment 1800
-1x- Banshees w aaspects- 850
---------
-3280

1x- Dire Avengers- 500 x 3 w battle equipment 1800- 5x- 8.75- 43.75

1x- Dire Avengers- 500 x 3 w battle equipment 1800- 5x- 8.75- 43.75


1x- Dire Avengers- 500 x 3 w battle equipment 1800- 5x- 8.75- 43.75

Orks
----
1x- sluggas- 600
2x- Shootas w Nob- 885x 2- 1770
1x- Lootas- 750/Stormboys-850

1x- Fully- Upgraded T1 Shootas-
2x- big shoota- 30.54 + 1x- Nob- 12 4 + 3x- shoota- 7, 21- 63.54

1x- Fully- Upgraded T1 Shootas-
2x- big shoota- 30.54 + 1x- Nob- 12 4 + 3x- shoota- 7, 21- 63.54
Last edited by Element on Mon 26 Dec, 2022 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The meaning of life is to have purpose, and the purpose of life is what you choose to make of it, in addition to what you come to understand along the way."

"Because I choose to."

"The humble person knows not everything, nor nothing at all, but certainly something worth knowing."
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Torpid
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Re: T1 Health Disparities

Postby Torpid » Mon 26 Dec, 2022 9:11 pm

Or speed. Or firing rate. Or internal race mechanics like SM kb spam. IG taking damage for no bleed on sentinel and having huge dps bleed from lost models on cata/GM. etc etc etc
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
Inekura
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Re: T1 Health Disparities

Postby Inekura » Mon 26 Dec, 2022 9:28 pm

Fathom outside of your logic making no sense it doesn't even make sense within your logic..like catas have 4 models that shoot not 6.
Get your facts straight before doing posts like this it only makes you look bad
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Element
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Re: T1 Health Disparities

Postby Element » Mon 26 Dec, 2022 10:23 pm

quote]
Or speed. Or firing rate. Or internal race mechanics like SM kb spam. IG taking damage for no bleed on sentinel and having huge dps bleed from lost models on cata/GM. etc etc etc
[/quote]
I mean I don't know what more to say other than, that if you have greater speed, then you can keep up with a fleeing opponent to still bleed them deespite kiting, with SM KB spam, there is lke a 1.5 s where the opponent is not doing damage because they are knock backed and suppressed so the damage falls off drastically,

As far as fire rate is concerned im not a game engineer, I dont know how to create a program that would allow to me assess those timely burst.

and bleed ffrom catas? what bleed and what damage loss? because its news to me that they even bleed damage given how long it takes to cut down one model at all. and its not like it matters when the burst they have especially when executed superceeds anything the other opposing unit can muster to imagine.

quote="Inekura"]Fathom outside of your logic making no sense it doesn't even make sense within your logic..like catas have 4 models that shoot not 6.
[/quote] At this point, I'm jus not responding to your obvious gaslighting post. it's as if you have no interpreting cognition cabilities as a human being, which obviously you do. though I must admit, that 4 catas shooting instead of 6 will be fixed.
"The meaning of life is to have purpose, and the purpose of life is what you choose to make of it, in addition to what you come to understand along the way."

"Because I choose to."

"The humble person knows not everything, nor nothing at all, but certainly something worth knowing."
Inekura
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Re: T1 Health Disparities

Postby Inekura » Mon 26 Dec, 2022 11:27 pm

Y'all should google what gaslighting actually means.
Just because I am saying that your way on going at this makes no sense doesn't mean it's gaslighting.
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Schepp himself
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Re: T1 Health Disparities

Postby Schepp himself » Tue 27 Dec, 2022 10:16 am

Did you just give the Orks and Eldar their teleporting heroes (with less health than melee-heroes) and then building an argument around that? I question the basis of the thesis.

I'm all up for number's crunching, though.
Greets schep himself thingy
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Element
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Re: T1 Health Disparities

Postby Element » Tue 27 Dec, 2022 5:21 pm

Schepp himself wrote:Did you just give the Orks and Eldar their teleporting heroes (with less health than melee-heroes) and then building an argument around that? I question the basis of the thesis.

I'm all up for number's crunching, though.


Tbh, I was just using them as samples given those are 2 commanders I have been playing with as of late, but the situation holds truer for them than melee heroes given their reanged damage is so low in relations to what melee heroes can do so consistently with their upgrades and abilities. notably in the case of orks and eldar warboss with bang bang hammer for t1 and the warlock with the merciless witchblade, they consistently come with enough damage to gibb a meq model within a few hits, the ranged commanders take a long time to do so and is why imo... there is also a disparity between these comander types given their damage isn't suitable enough for the match ups theyd even be useful in because they lack the ranged damage to bleed meq models. they are definitely fine on anything else.
"The meaning of life is to have purpose, and the purpose of life is what you choose to make of it, in addition to what you come to understand along the way."

"Because I choose to."

"The humble person knows not everything, nor nothing at all, but certainly something worth knowing."
Venjitron
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Re: T1 Health Disparities

Postby Venjitron » Sun 29 Jan, 2023 6:56 pm

i agree its the health of nids and ig that make it impossible for eldar to counter
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Crewfinity
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Re: T1 Health Disparities

Postby Crewfinity » Tue 31 Jan, 2023 7:27 pm

I think it's about time that we make all shoota boyz die-last models.
Paranoid Kamikaze
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Re: T1 Health Disparities

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Tue 31 Jan, 2023 10:57 pm

We need to balance the game more around the lore. 3 Tactical Marines should be able to take out at least 1k Sluggas. Don't forget to increase their health regen to 30 a second.
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Broodwich
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Re: T1 Health Disparities

Postby Broodwich » Sat 04 Feb, 2023 3:57 am

Paranoid Kamikaze wrote:We need to balance the game more around the lore. 3 Tactical Marines should be able to take out at least 1k Sluggas. Don't forget to increase their health regen to 30 a second.

In fact, we should really start with range. Why can tacs only shoot their rifles at 38 yards? It should be at least 500
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LOCALgHOST
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Re: T1 Health Disparities

Postby LOCALgHOST » Sat 11 Feb, 2023 12:29 pm

Torpid wrote:Or speed. Or firing rate. Or internal race mechanics like SM kb spam. IG taking damage for no bleed on sentinel and having huge dps bleed from lost models on cata/GM. etc etc etc


and warriors and banshees are not KB spam?

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