We need to talk about Chaos Lord and his absurd winrate and power level.

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
shipy00
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We need to talk about Chaos Lord and his absurd winrate and power level.

Postby shipy00 » Thu 21 Apr, 2022 8:34 pm

I think that there is a huge power level difference between Chaos Lord and not only all other chaos heroes, but just all heroes in general. As a div A player who asked the best CL mains in elite mod, i have compiled a list of points and ideas for changes.

Disclamer: I have asked redcrown, mink, gordian vorenthul and arctic frenzy about these points and they fully agree that they mostly abuse these traits of CL and feel that they are overpowered, but the CL lobby of balance design is keeping it from being discussed.

As of today:
Gordian: 195W/36L 84% winrate
Redclown: 800W/284L 73% winrate
Initialmink: 878W/381L 69%(nice) winrate

-So first thing, how do we know he is busted? He has an INSANE winrate, this alone should be proof enough but i will elaborate further with gameplay examples. I mean his lowest winrate is just shy of 70%, who has that kind of winrate?
-So he cant be knocked over, cant be supressed, he can block your units with movement commands, one might say he is the same as a sentinel but he cant be repaired, but he can heal AND regen on the field, and if you buy combi flamer every race except space marines loses early game guaranteed.
-Not only does chaos have a stronger sentinel with more survivability and insanely strong anti garrison and anti power generator ability, they also can use worship to make him an even bigger menace.
-At the start of the game if you instantly use worship and send your CL to rush the enemy, you are certainly going to start a snowball in almost every matchup. So you cannot ignore him early game, can you at least fight him? No. He has access to an energy shield and an armour upgrade which GIVES ENERGY? This idea alone makes no sense in terms of balance and if you decide to skip t1.5 unit in favor of a fully upgraded t1 CL then your chances of camping their gens and instantly killing them with combi flamer ability goes up a lot.
-You cannot even escape him since worship makes him as fast as banshees with fleet of foot active. Now that you have won t1 i should elaborate why t2 is also won.
-He has one of the most insanely overpowered globals in the game.
-You can summon a full squad of bloodletters and with worship keep them alive for quite a long time, so thats just an instant steroid to your melee force.
-His malignant blindness just wins team games if you use it during a big fight and in 1v1 it automatically nullifies any fight opportunity for your opponent so you can save your units for free.
-Bloodlust makes every single one of your units gain an attack damage increase while the fight goes on, so you can win an all in every. single. time.
-So lets look at it holistically, he can disengage, he can boost sidecappers power with bloodletters or just send them to main fight, and he can win every all in.
-What is the counterplay? Is it surviving to t2 and maybe getting a strong unit to help you come back? Well if CL is in t2 you know he already bought Let the galaxy burn, and he has already burned all your gens with 1 single cast. Good luck buying t2 units with only req (rip storm troopers).
-Btw he has the second largest health pool of all heroes and a heal, why would he need a heal on top of all of his innate and buyable tankiness?
-It just makes no sense for a faction designed to be slow and damaging to suddenly have a huge tank who is running around super fast with khorne worship, not to mention this affects all other chaos units. The worship needs a rework since it fundamentally breaks chaos as a faction.
Charging bloodletters with infinite healing and invincibility just is not interactive.
-Khorne shrine makes sidecapping nearly impossible unless you commit too hard, making your main force weaker and CL can all in you to destroy your gens again if you even have them up again.

My proposed changes:
-Make him supressable and not immune to knockback and set his model size to small, same as Warboss (Smollboss).The only logical hero with medium size should be hive tyrant anyways. Also i would make his Kill the weak only knockback and not heal since its insane health gain for no reason.
-Combi flamer huge cost increase, its just not fair to have a combi flamer and a regular chaos build with no downside. enough said. I would say that 35 power should be enough, thought 40 can work as well if its still not too big of a nerf.
-Globals either need rework or just 100red increase to all.
-Worship NEEDS a rework, every other worship does not break chaos as much as khorne worship does, but its 10 times worse since it amplifies CL power to unplayable. I would suggest 10-15% damage increase, it fits with khorne theme and it affects ALL of your units, so its a big thing.
-If worship doesn't get reworked then at least make it so that CL doesnt get speed buff from it.

Conclusion:
-I would like to say that these are my opinions on the changes, but they are backed by the opinions of the biggest CL mains. I only wish to see this game live as long as possible and the best next step is to make an interactive matchup vs one of the most busted heroes ever seen in Elite mod.
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GuruSkippy
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Re: We need to talk about Chaos Lord and his absurd winrate and power level.

Postby GuruSkippy » Thu 21 Apr, 2022 10:07 pm

it's 1st april again ?
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Dark Riku
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Re: We need to talk about Chaos Lord and his absurd winrate and power level.

Postby Dark Riku » Fri 22 Apr, 2022 2:00 am

shipy00 wrote:... As a div A player who asked the best CL mains in elite mod, ...
I wasn't asked.

shipy00 wrote:As of today:
Gordian: 195W/36L 84% winrate
Redclown: 800W/284L 73% winrate
Initialmink: 878W/381L 69%(nice) winrate
These winrates have more to do with who (people with low skill) they are playing rather than the powerlevel of the CL.

shipy00 wrote:-So first thing, how do we know he is busted? He has an INSANE winrate, this alone should be proof enough but i will elaborate further with gameplay examples. I mean his lowest winrate is just shy of 70%, who has that kind of winrate?
Yet Chaos has an overal winrate of 56%. Even with these skewed games.

shipy00 wrote:...
The rest of your post is just more hyperboles and untrue statements.
If anything you say would be true, you'd think your "CL, A div, mains" would have won some tournaments by now.
Or at least scored a little bit higher :)

GuruSkippy wrote:it's 1st april again ?
^This.
shipy00
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Re: We need to talk about Chaos Lord and his absurd winrate and power level.

Postby shipy00 » Fri 22 Apr, 2022 7:32 am

GuruSkippy wrote:it's 1st april again ?

oh guru, you know me so well :)
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TheTenso
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Re: We need to talk about Chaos Lord and his absurd winrate and power level.

Postby TheTenso » Fri 22 Apr, 2022 10:42 am

GuruSkippy wrote:it's 1st april again ?

Seems so.
CL is the easiest hero in general real div b menace besides that he falls off to superior PC master race and sorccs doombolts ask div a. So many chaos heroes being op yet nobody picks chaos in my 1v1 faction wars ?
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Broodwich
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Re: We need to talk about Chaos Lord and his absurd winrate and power level.

Postby Broodwich » Fri 22 Apr, 2022 7:40 pm

Only thing i can think of being OP is the combi bolter. Close to TM damage with full FOTM accuracy :o
Fas est ab hoste doceri
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OceansAteAlaska
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Re: We need to talk about Chaos Lord and his absurd winrate and power level.

Postby OceansAteAlaska » Fri 22 Apr, 2022 10:25 pm

always funny when people who dont understand statistics talk about statistics

im sure the players only play against people at their skill level and would never farm noobs for high wr !
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daddy E
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Re: We need to talk about Chaos Lord and his absurd winrate and power level.

Postby daddy E » Sat 23 Apr, 2022 12:30 am

well done brother, couldnt said better :thicc:
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Shroom
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Re: We need to talk about Chaos Lord and his absurd winrate and power level.

Postby Shroom » Sat 23 Apr, 2022 3:40 am

TheTenso wrote:So many chaos heroes being op yet nobody picks chaos in my 1v1 faction wars ?

Yea they're so op no one picks them. Last league I played in people were crying sorc was op, even though the only people who picked him were me and tex, and I don't think tex even played him.
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GuruSkippy
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Re: We need to talk about Chaos Lord and his absurd winrate and power level.

Postby GuruSkippy » Sat 23 Apr, 2022 7:37 am

guys, he is trolling
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Gordian Vorenthul
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Re: We need to talk about Chaos Lord and his absurd winrate and power level.

Postby Gordian Vorenthul » Sat 23 Apr, 2022 1:21 pm

Bruh, you people take baits like fishes. High IQ moment. Well done Shipy!
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! ONCE THE GALAXY BURNS, WE WILL DEFINE RIGHTEOUSNESS!!
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OceansAteAlaska
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Re: We need to talk about Chaos Lord and his absurd winrate and power level.

Postby OceansAteAlaska » Sat 23 Apr, 2022 5:03 pm

Gordian Vorenthul wrote:Bruh, you people take baits like fishes. High IQ moment. Well done Shipy!

You're a dog
shipy00
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Re: We need to talk about Chaos Lord and his absurd winrate and power level.

Postby shipy00 » Mon 25 Apr, 2022 9:27 am

Gordian Vorenthul wrote:Bruh, you people take baits like fishes. High IQ moment. Well done Shipy!

Thank you gordy, couldn't have done it without you lol

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