touch of nurgle

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
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Surprise Attack!
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Re: touch of nurgle

Postby Surprise Attack! » Wed 06 Aug, 2014 4:00 am

Gorilla wrote:having used TON on crewfinity to start this discussion I think its fair to realize there counters.

For one he stikknaded my tics which made it all but impossible to continue to use the explosions as defense. It pushed off one squad of sluggas which he sent headlong into my troops. once the sluggas moved back I went back to worshipping my shrine and I got the tics back.

Did it win me the engagement? yes. Did I win the game? no.

as far as your question surprise, I think it comes down to adapting the play style. You know its possible for those tics to at any moment get TON. Just like I knew it was possible that Knob could drop stikks and make the almost irrelevant. If you feel your enemy is going heavy t1 you have to adapt and either counter it hard or adapt to the circumstances. Just like anything else in the game.

Yeah, absolutely, I understand. Maybe Aiming wotz dat preemptively on any tic squads you run into then backing away your shootas one by one instead of blob movement towards late t1, where it might be possible for the PC player to have enough red?

Granted, I think I'm going to stick to IG. Everything just seems simpler with them.
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Re: touch of nurgle

Postby Torpid » Wed 06 Aug, 2014 2:51 pm

There was a thread on this somewhere else on the forum talking about macro and playing the warboss - you don't need to get stormboyz, or even a fourth squad to deal with a heavy enemy T1 - so long as you get a DD in purchase before you lose your whole gen farm you will win.

Basically you want to employ a turtle macro... Play defensively. Always wait for the foe to approach your shootas which are in cover. Have health-based regeneration upgrades on your warboss to tank damage and be difficult to deal with solo, never blob him with your shoota unless you think you can win the fight. Prioritise the capturing of contestable power nodes over requisition or VPs early on and node them ASAP. Drop 2 gens at your main farm instantly. Get big shootas before nobs as they have the range advantage and AWD will be very useful.

Send sluggas down the side of the map leading to his gen farm and send the warboss capturing the side of the map leading from your gen farm. Rush a deff dread + weirdboy and then getting either another slugga squad in T2 or some stormboyz and you'll win if you didn't lose your gen farm/too much map control before starting that DD purchase. The DD should rush over to their farm and burn it to bits.

If you're in a team game then you don't need to care about any of this because it just isn't applicable - there are two gen farms and even if you're getting absolutely slaughtered and lose your whole lane you just double an ally and feed of your other farm and hope your allies aren't retarded. If your allies are retarded there's jack shit you can do and that's why team games are pretty dull...
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Re: touch of nurgle

Postby Tex » Thu 21 Aug, 2014 10:23 pm

I think what needs to happen here is you need to accept that Orks suck/struggle against a good PC player, and that this hero is basically designed to eat fungal creatures for breakfast.

Case closed.
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Re: touch of nurgle

Postby Element » Fri 22 Aug, 2014 2:42 am

[*]
I think what needs to happen here is you need to accept that Orks suck/struggle against a good PC player, and that this hero is basically designed to eat fungal creatures for breakfast.

Case closed.

QFT... also ROFLMAO :lol:

but seriously though.. Chaos is just the natural counter to orks.. you couldn't balance this without changing either the chaos or orks faction entirely starting with a new foundation..

P.C.
he just fing rapes orks... it's just that simple. Every upgrade is like a direct counter and then some to orks. Chosen plague marines, Khorne Dreads, Lightning Claw termintatos.. 2x tzeentch marines... there's just nothing that can be done to change those units from completely and utterly kicking the ass of orks, outside the 2nd story window and then going down and dragging their half dead bodies attached to the back of a car..

C.S.
I mean the guy fing trolls man. He's worst than the P.C. chains of entanglement. tomb of subjugation..teleportation... the sorcerer as well as enemy units... I mean comeon man what are you supposed to to change those things?

You can't... so while I commend people for trying to come up with a way to help the situation.. the simple truth is that if your looking for a fix... there's no fix to this problem
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Re: touch of nurgle

Postby PhatE » Fri 22 Aug, 2014 6:26 am

The Chaos Sorcerer is far easier to fight in comparison to the Plague Champion. The Sorc doesn't have a weapon that can burn a gen farm within 25-30 seconds and halt any melee you may have had to something slower than what tyranids can do, which is saying a lot. As well as maybe being allowed to get Stormboyz against the Sorc (if you're lucky).
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Re: touch of nurgle

Postby Element » Fri 22 Aug, 2014 6:42 am

The Chaos Sorcerer is far easier to fight in comparison to the Plague Champion. The Sorc doesn't have a weapon that can burn a gen farm within 25-30 seconds and halt any melee you may have had to something slower than what tyranids can do, which is saying a lot. As well as maybe being allowed to get Stormboyz against the Sorc (if you're lucky).


The reaon I say the sorcerer is worse is because... the sorcerer can teleport into any shoota squad blob, and loota squad, or any AV units and tie them up immediately automatically winning the engagement practically speaking. He causes an ork player to buy a nob on the shootas as a tax to deal with worship from the cultist. He can teleport out the khorne dread as it goes through shredding apart an ork army (because if the chaos player isnt using one they are probably not playing correctly) He can use dark flames to easily gain wipe advantages because as an ork player you will be taking a considerably high amout of losses. and with that personal teleport his potential to wipe units only further rises. doombolt is absolutely redonculous when it comes to t1 engagements where that combined with one doomblasts can almost practically ensure the wipe on an upgraded slugga squad. In addition he doesnt have the same map control problems as the plague champion because he is faster and can teleport around or vice versa teleport you to him which almost ensures the wipe of any loota squad...

Im not going to say the plague champion is not hard to play against when playing as orks... no he's hella hard.. and against someone who knows what they are doing practcially impossible to beat.. but the difference is the sorcerer ends games in t1. you dont get lootas they are a liability, you dont get stormboyz they are a liability, if you dont want to risk and I mean RISK serious game deciding wipes you are practically limited to 3 squads. sluggas shootas and the painboy as to where at least you can try to use them against the P.C. to do that against the C.S. your asking to lose. That's just from my experiences anyways...
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Re: touch of nurgle

Postby Arbit » Fri 22 Aug, 2014 6:50 am

For the mek

Sorcerer teleports in > More Dakka global on shoota squad that's not tied up > death (by choppa or mass dakka; you choose)

The PC can get that annoying knockback resistant armor, but in T1 you can bounce him around too.
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Re: touch of nurgle

Postby Toilailee » Fri 22 Aug, 2014 6:52 am

Tex wrote:I think what needs to happen here is you need to accept that Orks suck/struggle against a good PC player, and that this hero is basically designed to eat fungal creatures for breakfast.

Case closed.


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Re: touch of nurgle

Postby Kvek » Fri 22 Aug, 2014 7:29 am

as long as it's not warboss it's still a decent-ish mu imo
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Re: touch of nurgle

Postby Atlas » Fri 22 Aug, 2014 7:41 am

I'll chime in from my own experience and say that it definitely is an uphill battle for orks pretty much regardless of hero.
I feel like for orks the MU really depends on how well they can limp into early t2 where the bustas, deff dread and weirdboy comes out and can really do some damage.

You don't see a lot of lootas for all the aforementioned reasons and stormboyz are sketchy at best without painboy support. If you do go for a more melee oriented t1 (sluggas,storms and pb) then I feel like that plaus a lot into Chaos' hands with their great melee/anti-melee tools. This is where Touch of Nurgle/ Bile Spewer and the Sword of Flame/Vestments of the Warp combos come into play.
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Re: touch of nurgle

Postby Kvek » Fri 22 Aug, 2014 11:57 am

bustas suck hard against chaos, the deff dread is rather easily countered and weirdboy seems like the only good unit against chaos but as chaos you usually want a fast dread or bc and webo isnt rly gonna help against that and going stormboys against chaos is a suicude
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Re: touch of nurgle

Postby saltychipmunk » Fri 22 Aug, 2014 2:35 pm

Kvek wrote:bustas suck hard against chaos, the deff dread is rather easily countered and weirdboy seems like the only good unit against chaos but as chaos you usually want a fast dread or bc and webo isnt rly gonna help against that and going stormboys against chaos is a suicude



well just looking at the units chaos has , i makes perfect sense for tank bustas and the deff dread to blow, those two units are built to be cheap and fragile. so a race with HEAVY use of autocannons should logically face roll them.

i have had much more success using beamy lootas and WARPATHed tankbustas over just spaming cans and bustas.

well going heavy melee against chaos in general is really a bad idea, since all chaos needs to do is upgrade their 1 heretic squad with a champion to hardcounter any 1 melee squad in t1 (for any race really) .

as for av , the knob is the only commander that might have trouble vs tanks , as the warboss would easily counter BC and the beamy mec boy would chase down and murder BC and dreads alike with ease.

won't deny it though , vs a chaos who knows how to capitalize on his/her race's advantage over orks. It is avery uphill battle. mostly because orks are not very power efficient in t1. A byproduct of needing to invest 45 power into shootas to get some staying power. out of them.
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Re: touch of nurgle

Postby Tex » Fri 22 Aug, 2014 3:30 pm

...

PhatE hit the nail on the head a long time ago.

Bile Spewer is the main reason why PC should not lose to orks. If you don't know why this is such a huge factor, then you haven't played against a PC player who knows this matchup.

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