Altering Sync Kills

[Ace of Swords]

Yes adapt at shees doing 5 consecutive specials, that requires some real skill to pull off.

And no I don't like SC, but that's because more the S of RTS and T of RTT are missing from it, it's a game where it comes down to whoever is faster/precise, but still that has nothing to do with random events, the random events that require skill are those performed by your opponent such as a flanking or 2 combined, or where and what units he is sending in what locations, specials and sync kills are just dumb situations that can and will favor someone "lucky", I've seen sluggas performing a special on a squad that was retreating just like 0,5 ms after it and yet knocking down the entire squad while it was under retreat, taking amplified melee damage and as a result getting wiped, that requires some skill to pull off and avoid right?

[crazyman64335]

actually regarding the SCV building patterns they were either changed or players figured out a trick because players could eventually have their workers build buildings from a specific side. I've seen many pros do this over the past few months. So that's not entirely random, it's controlled and the pros who have the ability to control this are using it to the fullest advantage.

[cakeauxcoings]

If I remember correctly, in DoW 1, the unit performing a sync kill was immune to everything while the move was executed. It could be a solution. It could be worst in some cases.

Also, to have long been playing Company of Heroes 1, where randomness is a essential factor, it was clearly a part of the game, and the same debate has occured.

[Broodwich]

Keep the Sync-kills as they are right now, if you want a game that has no randomness to it go and play Starcraft 2.

DoW 2 always was about flashy animations and stuff like that and I just like the detailed animation of most of the current Sync-kills. ^^

my thoughts as well, I would have never gotten into this game if it didnt have all the awesome ott stuff

[Myrdal]

Keep the Sync-kills as they are right now, if you want a game that has no randomness to it go and play Starcraft 2.

Who are you talking to? OP never said anything about removing the randomness from the game.

DoW 2 always was about flashy animations and stuff like that and I just like the detailed animation of most of the current Sync-kills. ^^

And Elite afaik was always about keeping it competitive. If the majority of high-level players find sync-kills an annoyance that disrupts gameplay, we got a problem. Luckily OP gave this some thought and came up with a simple way to reduce this annoyance without much compromising on the eye-candy part. Even more luckily, I managed to write a few scar lines in an acceptable manner that seems to do the trick.
The fact that we can change these values dynamically rather than having to modify rbfs means that should ever the UI guy return from his warp voyage, it might be possible to add a sync-kill preference option in the game lobby. Until then, I will support this change.

[MaxPower]

Who are you talking to? OP never said anything about removing the randomness from the game.

How about Riku and Discreet? Yeah I know it's not that easy reading more than the first post...

The fact that we can change these values dynamically rather than having to modify rbfs means that should ever the UI guy return from his warp voyage, it might be possible to add a sync-kill preference option in the game lobby. Until then, I will support this change.

And how would that work?

[David-CZ]

I think he means a checkbox of some sort that would turn sync-kills on or off. If so it would be a great solution that would satisfy both sides.

[MaxPower]

What happens if one player activates the sync kill checkbox and his oppenent doesn't? That would give one player a significant advantage though or am I wrong on this one?

[Indrid]

I assume they mean the host would have control. Seems a bit drastic to me though.

[fankater]

IDK why we can`t throw them away for two or three patches and then make a poll to let people decide ?

[Swift]

Because a lot of people who don't play the mod competitively yet stay up to date would suffer from such drastic action. Just tone them down a little bit.

[crazyman64335]

that really doesn't make sense when you think about it, this is ELITE (Balance Mod) it's right in the title. If people are playing it for new units or flash they're playing the wrong mod

[Torpid]

There's absolutely no reason whatsoever that people shouldn't be allowed the option to choose whether they want sync kills or not, given that it's possible and not very time consuming to implement.

[Swift]

I like the idea of choosing sync kills, means that we can still see them yet won't get them in tournaments.

[David-CZ]

Yeah, if possible an ON/OFF button would be perfect.

[Swift]

I think that would actually be a better solution, an on/off button that means you can choose to enjoy a sync kill or go into tournament mode with no sync kills. Now we just need that UI guy back...

[Raffa]

Sync-kill related requests:

1. The Avatar/GUO sync-kills on each other. Can it be made so that when either does the last hit to the other it always triggers the sync-kill? They're probably the best in the game but you never see them. This happens so rarely anyway it should be a pretty dramatic finish when it does.

2. Force Commander killing Carnifex. He has a great sync-kill on it with his power sword (yeah...lulz). If he gets the last hit on the fex can he please a) pull out the power sword just for the sync-kill and b) always do the sync-kill?

3. Force Commander killing Warboss. Again, he has a unique Sync-kill with the Thunder Hammer on the Warboss. Can this always be used when he kills the WB?

IMO these are the 4 best sync-kills in the game, and I wouldn't be surprised if some people haven't seen any of them. Just for cosmetic effect they're worth having, shame for them not to be used at all.

As for the debate on sync-kills, well that's just part of the random nature of this game unfortunately. They make the fights more realistic although it can be frustrating when you don't get that squad wipe cos of a sync-kill. Intrinsic part of the game. This isn't SC2.

[Swift]

Well that would be nice for the sake of pleasurable viewing, but is it that high a priority? I would like it of course, but I think we should sort out this on/off thing first maybe if that is what people want.

[Broodwich]

Sync-kill related requests:

1. The Avatar/GUO sync-kills on each other. Can it be made so that when either does the last hit to the other it always triggers the sync-kill? They're probably the best in the game but you never see them. This happens so rarely anyway it should be a pretty dramatic finish when it does.

2. Force Commander killing Carnifex. He has a great sync-kill on it with his power sword (yeah...lulz). If he gets the last hit on the fex can he please a) pull out the power sword just for the sync-kill and b) always do the sync-kill?

3. Force Commander killing Warboss. Again, he has a unique Sync-kill with the Thunder Hammer on the Warboss. Can this always be used when he kills the WB?

IMO these are the 4 best sync-kills in the game, and I wouldn't be surprised if some people haven't seen any of them. Just for cosmetic effect they're worth having, shame for them not to be used at all.

As for the debate on sync-kills, well that's just part of the random nature of this game unfortunately. They make the fights more realistic although it can be frustrating when you don't get that squad wipe cos of a sync-kill. Intrinsic part of the game. This isn't SC2.

Agree 100%

Also add that for walker kills

[DavidDiSab]

I agree with all the good things mentions about sync kills and, on a separate but equal note, agree with most of the bad stuff.

I always though sync kills could use a gameplay bonus. I had a few thoughts. Sync kills get the killer extra xp. models get a small health regen while in a sync kill. models give an inspiration/defence/AoE buff while sync kill. SO even if that last heritic gets away cause your commander really wanted to beat his buddies face in, you'd get some kind of plus.


edit: the though being, something other then cool animation that makes you look forward to a sync kill. Maybe crit bonus damage, so when you see a sync kill, you know that even though you have a long animation, you would have had to hit two or even three more times to actually get the kill.

[Myrdal]

We can override the probability of sync-kills at pretty much any time as well as specify what sync-kill is performed (with current weapon) but there's no reliable way to change sync-kill that is tied to a different weapon. So I can only say yes to your first request Raffa.

The select/checkbox ui thingy is highly uncertain at this point, especially with totalcrumpet MIA. So I think we should just patch this in at least for 1v1 modes, then have a vote or some shit.

[lolzarz]

I'll go for a solution that is utterly overkill.

Pause the whole game whenever a sync kill occurs and zoom in the players' cameras on the sync kill. See your force commander smash the warboss' skull in, then continue fighting. It should solve issues related with retreating units because everything is paused, but it may not be technically feasible.

[cakeauxcoings]

That's a bit extreme in my opinion.