Tanks' and transports' problem

[Sub_Zero]

I am pretty sure the issue is very known amongst the players.

The thing is that any tank/transport on the move chooses targets on its own. Only when a vehicle remains stationary you can right click any target you want and it will obey. Once you have it on the move it will start act wilfully again.

Just a quick example to understand what I am talking about.

When you want to hunt down a vehicle (this vehicle runs away) with your infantry-based AV squad you either move it (the squad) towards the vehicle and shoot in bursts (tacs with a rocket launcher, vindicare assassin, plague marines etc) or force melee on that vehicle so you can pursue it and fire at the same time (melta stormtroopers, venom brood, sternguard veterans with specific rounds loaded in etc). You get the point.

And when your superior to those units T3 purchase starts wasting shots (on units that approaches it or fires upon it) and allows the vehicle to get away it is just plain stupid. In order to land shots you have to consistently stop it on its tracks and manually attack the target. And when you stop you can't chase really well, especially if you chase a vehicle that has the same speed (it will just get away).

Another situation just for better understanding what I am complaining about. Your T3 purchase (any tank) is forced to move by a T2 walker. Alongside that walker there is another chasing squad. So your tank decides to target that infantry squad instead of the walker (all this happens again when you move your vehicle). Time is wasted, the walker is not hit.

But I am sure you know it. If I am mistaken somewhere in my examples then feel free to correct me. But as it is in the game now - tanks/transports are very and very annoying to manage.

Having no experience in moding whatsoever I can't even propose a solution. Again, it is up to you, guys. I am here just to bring the problem. And I think that is a real problem.

To cut the story short - the inability of transports/tanks to fire on the move at any chosen targets needs to be fixed if it is possible.

P. S. People have been complaining for ages about the bad pathing system. As to me I don't think it is a bigger problem than the one I've just described. As long as you delicately choose the path you are fine. Just saying.

[Flash]

Is it possible to create an ability that forces the vehicle to fire on a specific target if that target is within range?

[Vapor]

Every experienced player knows of the problem you speak of. The easiest solution is probably an ability that marks the specified target for that attacker for the rest of the game. The DoW engine currently seems to drop a targeting command once the target becomes untargetable (i.e. drives into the fog of war).

[Barrogh]

"Target lock" type of ability is being proposed all the time, but it's quite probable that it's impossible to make (at least without screwing something else up).

But I'm up for discussion.

Is it possible to create an ability that forces the vehicle to fire on a specific target if that target is within range?

I'd say that it should persist even if target is out of range. It isn't of great help if your tank shoots at something else because its main target is out of range for a second, not to mention how much time vehicles can waste rotating turret if your intended target dances between out-of-LoS position and some position you can shoot at, while another enemy unit is there on the other side altogether.

[Raffa]

In short, impossible. Although of course it pisses you off like nothing else when you lose a priceless chance to wipe a vehicle.

Inventing a new ability is pretty much impossible with Lulgrim still AWOL, and the concept of an order making a unit target one attacker for the rest of the game seems mighty hard to implement anyway.

Look up the windup/wind-down times between shots in the Codex and manually target things while moving to minimise the impact of this. It's annoying, but you learn to play around it.

[Black Relic]

In short, impossible. Although of course it pisses you off like nothing else when you lose a priceless chance to wipe a vehicle.

Inventing a new ability is pretty much impossible with Lulgrim still AWOL, and the concept of an order making a unit target one attacker for the rest of the game seems mighty hard to implement anyway.

Look up the windup/wind-down times between shots in the Codex and manually target things while moving to minimise the impact of this. It's annoying, but you learn to play around it.

Step 1: Open Cope's Tool Box
Step 2: Go to simulation
Step 3:Go to Tuning
Step 4: Go to combat
Step 5: Go to targeting priority
Step 6: Find autocannon_tank_pvp
Step 7: Change targeting priority to vehicle from 0 to 1. And fixed.

There are obvious problems to this being when you dont target a vehicle but you do infantry, your tank will (most likely) turn to target the tank. And since the tank normally targets the nearest unit, (that has the high priority) chances are your tank will turn to attack a different tank that is closer, if you target it a flee tank that is further away than the other.

Also, making an ability that lock a tank to a target is possible, however you HAVE to give it a range and the ability HAS to stop when the target get out of range to minimize bugs. But this ability might also cause bugs when the target dies.

[Barrogh]

I'm pretty sure that solution above does exactly the opposite of what's desireable

[Sub_Zero]

The solution I would be really happy with:

I propose another implementation of a button. This button will allow to set different modes of fire. The auto-fire mode (the current mode) for those who need not any changes and the special fire mode. Let's talk about this more. Please, consider that I don't know anything about the techical side of it.

So everyone knows that a moving vehicle is a stupid vehicle when it comes to its demented aiming. The idea is to maximally prevent it. This mode restricts a vehicle from firing and turning its weapons (pretty much like the sentinel when it is on the move). So now no shots will be spent on undesirable targets and you won't lose time waiting when the weapons of your vehicle rotate in the right direction.

How easy is that to implement? What do you personally think about this thing?

[Ar-Aamon]

All Tanks should have a melee attack. Problem solved.


edit: well I've had better ideas in the past.

[BaptismByLoli]

All Tanks should have a melee attack. Problem solved.

[Ar-Aamon]

Yeah but it will screw up setup-team play :/

[Sub_Zero]

I am not sure if you joke but that may be a solution

After all it makes sense to ram infantry and other vehicles.

[Lichtbringer]

Same problem still in CoH2, and there it is also for infantry, because no melee.

What CoH2 does implement now for tanks, is the "Hold fire" toggle. But it is still super annoying.


The best for DoW2 would be if we can get the meleeattack behaviour without the meleeattack.

Or a mode in which things ONLY attack vehicles.

[BaptismByLoli]

And don't forgot the ever useful 'Reverse Mode' in CoH2 as well ^^

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

[Caeltos]

I would do anything for a reverse function for DoW2.

[Ace of Swords]

how different are the coh2 files? Isn't there a chance of copy paste or even just someway to take inspiration from the code they use and make something similar for dow2?

[crazyman64335]

it's fairly obvious how to use this pathing however. the reverse function can be simulated in game.

If your tank is in a choke point and you need it to back up, click slightly behind the tank and do this repeatedly until your tank is at it's desired destination. The tank (and pathing in general) works in a way where the unit will attempt to reach it's destination the quickest way possible. For alot of tanks, when you click WAY behind them, it's quicker for them to turn around and drive (despite the fact this will turn their rear armor towards the enemy)

-the more you know

[Torpid]

Coming from an IG perspective I have no idea how people can complain about pathing with regards to the reverse function - units being blocked by other units, or just getting stuck in certain areas, or not going through spaces they visibly would be able to is a different matter - but none of that would be fixed by a reverse function anyway. I don't think it's a big deal at all for what Crazyman just said, it's very controllable as it is, if you can't do it then improve your sentinel micro

[Myrdal]

how different are the coh2 files? Isn't there a chance of copy paste or even just someway to take inspiration from the code they use and make something similar for dow2?

We don't have the source code and these pathfinding/move functions aren't exposed in a way that they could be adjusted either through scar or the rbf library. Same goes for coh2 modders. I think the targeting is much worse problem since there's no trick to control it like reversing. Might be possible to mod some kind of target-lock though.

[Barrogh]

it's fairly obvious how to use this pathing however. the reverse function can be simulated in game.

If your tank is in a choke point and you need it to back up, click slightly behind the tank and do this repeatedly until your tank is at it's desired destination. The tank (and pathing in general) works in a way where the unit will attempt to reach it's destination the quickest way possible. For alot of tanks, when you click WAY behind them, it's quicker for them to turn around and drive (despite the fact this will turn their rear armor towards the enemy)

-the more you know

Well, that's kinda obvious thing to do (paired with queuing), but it's also just a workaround for just a single issue out of many.

As to what's needed, devs could just as well implement manual control
*insert assuming direct control meme here*

[BaptismByLoli]

[Barrogh]

Thank you. How could I even miss that one?

[Sub_Zero]

I think it will be alright to give all the tanks/transports the highest speed possible for their main guns (I mean they should rotate really fast). Given how often it screws you up when they are on the move it will really help them to justify their roles (moving firing platform). Of course if there are no other solutions.

[Lichtbringer]

"Prioritize Vehicles
We have created a new ability similar to hold fire which enables the user to restrict main gun fire based on target type. For example, an Elefant with priority targeting activated would no longer fire on infantry; instead, the unit would only engage vehicles. This greatly enhances the usability of a unit by restricting unwanted vehicle rotation and enhancing weapon efficiency."

"Suggested Target
Explicit user orders will now always be executed so long as sight is maintained and no shot blocker is present to prevent the shot from being fired.
Suggested target weapon priority set to 1000"


Holy shit, Relic did it in CoH2. We need smth like this too^^

[Speedy^]

Doesn't need an ability, all one has to fix is its Target Priorities and set everything to neutral (same level) that way it continues to engage the target right clicked because everything else is same level of priority. It should work like that. To top it further, the different weapons can be added increased priority. Aka Lascannon upgraded predators will prioritize armor over infantry if any armor is at range.

[Black Relic]

^^
Tried. That doesn't work very well. Its an extremely small improvement. One reason is because sometimes you don't want to target vehicles. And another is the units in the game retaliate to other that damage them or that are closest to them. The only way to get a significant improvement is to create two abilities. One is the vehicle holds fire against infantry targets. If the enemy units has infantry unit_type, the tank doesn't fire at them unless the ability is toggled off. And the other does the same thing but doesn't target vehicle,or canifex unit_type. These would be the easiest to make.

The other is to make similar to a mark target ability so the tank or vehicle targets that one unit or squad even while moving and wont target anything else unless ordered to. But this one I can see bugs and making the ability sounds like a pain in the booty, so I don't want to even try to make it. I could probably make the two abilities in the first paragraph in an afternoon to see if they have any kind of significant impact. And maybe the second option.