Land Raider Phobos

Issues dealing with gameplay balance.
Osinski
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Land Raider Phobos

Postby Osinski » Thu 17 Jul, 2014 8:52 pm

I apologise in advance if this has been discussed previously. I haven't frequented the forum in the past.

I'd like to open discussion on the phobos. I see it's role as a fire base. It has good damage, albeit unreliable based on the firing angles and consistency of firing (wind up and fizzle). When compared to the other T3 chaos tanks, I see it wanting. The upgrades are terrific, all three of them. They are also pretty mobile and maneuverable.

I suppose my gripe is that as far as fire platforms are concerned, the predators are excellent and despite lower hp, are more viable due to their maneuverability/survivability. This makes the phobos (with no support abilities) and the relatively long cool down associated with dirge caster, more if a liability.

I just wish it's health was more in line with other super heavy vehicles or the dirge caster was faster to recharge. It's size, speed, build time, health and cost combined make it hard to justify in my opinion.

Thoughts?
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Torpid
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Re: Land Raider Phobos

Postby Torpid » Thu 17 Jul, 2014 11:24 pm

I think it's perfectly fine. It's crazy strong alongside plague marines, TCSM and BLs.
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Swift
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Re: Land Raider Phobos

Postby Swift » Fri 18 Jul, 2014 12:39 am

It is fine, though I would like to see a rise in hp of 200-250.
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Black Relic
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Re: Land Raider Phobos

Postby Black Relic » Fri 18 Jul, 2014 7:18 am

I agree with a health increase of 150, since I don't want an eltrich to completely one shot it from full health to "gg wp."

Because that's happened before. Not to me, I did it to some one lol.

But it is a crazy weapon platform. I would like to see it debuff vehicles when ever it kills a vehicle (like termies effect on infantry) but that could become WAY to powerful in team games.
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Raffa
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Re: Land Raider Phobos

Postby Raffa » Fri 18 Jul, 2014 3:43 pm

Dirge caster range is pretty big, but I guess a 10-second lower cd time would be better.

Large base size means Phobos cannot survive the FC powerfist/teleport + nuke combination, which I think I used vs you in a game :)

But I get where you're coming from.
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Re: Land Raider Phobos

Postby saltychipmunk » Fri 18 Jul, 2014 4:46 pm

land raiders have always been that big bulking tank thing in the middle of the map. killing any land raider is a piece of cake, then again land raiders arent built to be a replacement for a standing army. The way i see it , is that you are supposed to use them as a damage magnet while the rest of your army supports it. usually you accomplish this by placing it near or on a heavily contested vp.

But that is ALL you get one of those things for because they are garbage at everything else which, mind you, is kind of the point.

disabling a lr and then dropping a nuke on them is supposed to be a counter to them. You are supposed to address this with preventive measures , though admittedly in the case of the fc that is much harder to pull off.

look at the bright side , they used the nuke on a lr instead of all those level 3+ infantry units you have that *arent* replaceable.

plus most people consider super units to be more of a victory dance than a viable unit most of the time . there are exceptions of course , but in terms of pure utility for cost most super units just dont have it one or two trick ponies most of them are.
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Re: Land Raider Phobos

Postby Osinski » Fri 18 Jul, 2014 6:00 pm

I know the land raider isn't a replacement army or anything. At least the other two variants have some benefit to letting them idle behind your army. Phobos needs to be engaged as a weapon, that is it's purpose. I think that for it to be viable, you need to be able to use it on the attack and it's the most vulnerable of them.

I don't mean for any absurd kind of buffs but a soft health increase and dirge cool down reduction might be nice.

As one person said, super units are more of victory dances, I disagree. Think of how useful some can be. Consider the wagon, the guo, the avatar. Even in the redeemers case, you can reinforce and retreat to it, which means you can support it better.
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Re: Land Raider Phobos

Postby Superhooper01 » Fri 18 Jul, 2014 6:38 pm

soft health increase is something i asked for when the LR was 1st added to chaos and i think u make a good point so +1
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Kvek
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Re: Land Raider Phobos

Postby Kvek » Fri 18 Jul, 2014 6:48 pm

Phobos is a really viable choice if you're leading, it makes pushing into you almost impossible, and i think its ten times better than other land raiders just because of the versatility, a T3 reinforcement point for SM for such a huge cost is pretty bleh, considering its not even that good at holding a point / offense
I disagree with the buff, phobos is fine how it is
oh and sorry if someone said something similiar, i just read osinski's posts
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Dark Riku
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Re: Land Raider Phobos

Postby Dark Riku » Fri 18 Jul, 2014 7:12 pm

Raffa wrote:Large base size means Phobos cannot survive the FC powerfist/teleport + nuke combination, which I think I used vs you in a game :)
No land raider survives that though.
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Torpid
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Re: Land Raider Phobos

Postby Torpid » Fri 18 Jul, 2014 11:44 pm

The phobos is not an offensive unit. You don't take ground using a phobos. You get the phobos when you have the ground and want to hold it. Nothing can beat it at range and it has a stun to counter melee. It honestly does suck how effective nukes are vs it, but that's a problem shared by all the super heavy tanks. Maybe changing their armour type or something so that nukes were a little less effective vs them would be a good idea?

Other than nukes though I think the phobos performs great, if you want an offensive-take-back-the-map unit get the GUO.
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Lost Son of Nikhel
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Re: Land Raider Phobos

Postby Lost Son of Nikhel » Sat 19 Jul, 2014 1:04 am

LRP is a very cost effective unit with his current cost.

Apart of nukes, I think his main weakness is his null synergy with the rest of the Chaos army. IMHO Its more easy to force off a Chaos army + LRP than SM/GK army + LRR/LRC if you can tank the damage.
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