2.2 preview

[Torpid]

I mean when compared to the vanguard upgrade it certainly does seem lackluster, but then again making them too effective as a melee squad would make them a bit too versatile with the melta guns too. Meh, maybe the daemon maul should be heavy melee or something.

[Ace of Swords]

I think the ability it brings it's quite good, the 5 dps increasing isn't amazing but it's not bad either, it's just the cost that it's too high should probably be something like 50/5.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

@ Caeltos
So, essentially the Subjugation change was to avoid that cheesy combos (maybe in the same way as the Mega-Rumblah + Roks combo nerf?)and, at the same time, force/say to the player: "Hey, you subjugated the squad! USE IT!"?

@ About Daemon Maul
1. The ability it's supposed to help to Raptors in his "hunter" role, killing quickly alone models. The ability do good damage (200 damage) but his type it's MELEE, so any squad with melee resistance AFAIK are going to receive 40% less damage. So, the 200 damage turns into 120 damage.

2. With the high energy cost of the Raptors Jump and the own ability energy cost, and with relatively low HP, it's very very risky to jump and use the ability. If the battle goes bad, you can easily lose models or even the full squad, which in other case they can simply jump away again(if they are level 3 or 4, of course).

3. Lose the AC, lose the Daemon Maul ability and weapon. And the AC isn't cheap at all. In essence, if you buy the Maul you are forced to buy the AC everytime you lose him if you want to get performance of the upgrade. And if you don't want to buy the AC, you Raptor squad is going to lose a lot of performance and survival against a T2 or T3 army.

4. Buy the Daemon Maul, lose the opportunity to buy the Melta upgrade, which has proven to be a lot more useful in T3. At the same time, the Melta Raptors retain some of their melee capacities (22 melee damage per model in level 1), enough to counter HWT and ranged squads. Daemon Maul Raptors, on the other hand can't counter vehicles and they are easily counter by T2 or T3 dedicate melee squads or even some jump squads (Stormboyz, Vanguards...)

In the Chaos thread we give some ideas for the Daemon Maul. Give mauls to all the squad OR a Warp Talons (Raptors with Lighting claws ALAS Vanguard Veterans) OR even a Eternal War upgrade.

[Raffa]

In the Chaos thread we give some ideas for the Daemon Maul. Give mauls to all the squad OR a Warp Talons (Raptors with Lighting claws ALAS Vanguard Veterans) OR even a Eternal War upgrade.

Now there's an idea. Give Raptors Eternal War when the Maul is bought. Keeps them different from Vanguards/Asm and leave Maul the same. Possibly increase cost to 90/30 to factor in the maul's current crappiness and the effectiveness of Eternal War.

Personally I'd prefer this Warp Talons thing. 3 Lightning Claws (plus Maul for AC), with the Maul as Heavy Melee. T3 upgrade. Cost 130/45.

[dance commander]

Personally I'd prefer this Warp Talons thing. 3 Lightning Claws (plus Maul for AC), with the Maul as Heavy Melee. T3 upgrade. Cost 130/45.

Why would it have to cost so much? It wouldn't even replenish the squad losses like the vanguard upgrade does (wich is insane, since the upgrade more than pays for itself, same for the sternguard) and would do nothing more, no squad leader that reinforces normally or increased health.

[Raffa]

Because it has power melee and heavy melee. Basically the raw dps would be similar to vanguards but they will start with a heavy melee weapon. As a tradeoff, they have less hp and do not reinforce when upgraded.

It would prolly just be better to reduce the cost to 75/0. No idea where 90/25 came from or what the reasons for it costing so much are.

[Lulgrim]

Updated list again for current build. Some stuff goes under "fixes" and some under "balance" depending what feels appropriate.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

webway gate abilities to "W" with gridkeys please.

do chimeras no longer have extra armour?

[Stoned_elf]

cute names for the races in notes

just bored / being silly but thought i'd point out anyway.... Obviously GW ie nids were around before Zerg

[Lulgrim]

Well that's the joke...

[Ace of Swords]

This came to my mind...

[Cyris]

• I STRONLGY second Nuclear Arbitor: webway gate abilities to "W" with gridkeys please.
• Wonderful Vanguard changes, really think the range penalty on Vengence rounds should go as well. Range 30 AV damage =
• Ork changes hit things that needed it, but more mild then I was hoping for. Super happy about wartruck, that thing was just not in a good place. Will gladly trade wartruck and slugga buffs for Wierdboy and more shoota nerfs!
• 75 xp seems a lot for the Infestation towers when compared to 150 for Webways.
• Dark Reaper changes will not change it from a hyper-niche unit. ELITE has been about broadening possibilities, these guys are the opposite of this :/
• Having played a bunch of Eldar lately, I take back some of the things I said about the Falchon, it's lackluster for it's price. Would personally like to see a T2 upgrade, mutually exclusive to shield, that drains energy for increased firepower or even turret rotation!
• GK changes look great (thought LR suppressing at range 40 is still a bit much, just like it was a bit much at range 20 on the old SM LR), especially the Rhino! I might play them as my next main after Eldar...
• Nid leaders... I have not the slightest idea, lol. I can't wait to try them though! (VC Fex still sucks for cost)
• Overall, a really good patch and timely!

[MyMe]

• I STRONLGY second Nuclear Arbitor: webway gate abilities to "W" with gridkeys please.
• Wonderful Vanguard changes, really think the range penalty on Vengence rounds should go as well. Range 30 AV damage =
• Ork changes hit things that needed it, but more mild then I was hoping for. Super happy about wartruck, that thing was just not in a good place. Will gladly trade wartruck and slugga buffs for Wierdboy and more shoota nerfs!
• 75 xp seems a lot for the Infestation towers when compared to 150 for Webways.
• Dark Reaper changes will not change it from a hyper-niche unit. ELITE has been about broadening possibilities, these guys are the opposite of this :/
• Having played a bunch of Eldar lately, I take back some of the things I said about the Falchon, it's lackluster for it's price. Would personally like to see a T2 upgrade, mutually exclusive to shield, that drains energy for increased firepower or even turret rotation!
• GK changes look great (thought LR suppressing at range 40 is still a bit much, just like it was a bit much at range 20 on the old SM LR), especially the Rhino! I might play them as my next main after Eldar...
• Nid leaders... I have not the slightest idea, lol. I can't wait to try them though! (VC Fex still sucks for cost)
• Overall, a really good patch and timely!

People still think Big Shootas are OP? I would expect the upgrade to do SOMETHING, given that it's mainly a dps-increasing upgrade. At what point do people want to stop nerfing them? It costs 20 power per squad, more than guardian equipment or toxin sacs, both of which have superior utility than a couple seconds of suppression (in most cases). Going from 33 to 27 damage from retail is already like a 20% damage reduction in t1 (offset slightly in t2 by the shoota nob damage increase). Heaven forbid Ork has offensive power, given how fragile the squads are. I'll admit that retail #'s were a bit much for shootas, but don't make a damage upgrade outright useless for it's cost, please.

[Kvek]

MyMe shit on orks come play nids

[Dark Riku]

It's not offset slightly in t2 Myme.
At the moment it actually makes shootas do more dmg than retail in t2 fully upgraded.

[dance commander]

I think that's fine, since tier 1 units scaling better across tiers isn't a terrible idea, shootas are the only unit in their category (t1 unit ranged piercing damage) that don't have a t2 upgrade.

[Cyris]

@MyMe
The T2 Shoota Nob damage upgrade is nothing to sneeze at. Heck, I usually even think of the upgrade as a T2 upgrade. Also, the only world in which more shoota nerfs would be ok in my mind, is exactly what I stated: a world where sluggas got a similar magnitude of buffs.
FWIW, I come at this as a current ork player. I've been slowly working my way through the entire roster, maining each in turn for at least 2 months. My time with orks showed me that shootas were still super duper great and sluggas were like an embarrassing cousin who you can' get rid of
That said, yes, Toxin sacks are OP. But similarly, hormagaunts are meh and their AG upgrade is overcosted. But then of course, req only swarms of guardsmen beat both termas and shootas, heh...

[MyMe]

Alright, I may have understated the nob upgrade when I used the word "slightly." It is awesome (pricy in power, but that's understandable), and I also consider it usually a t2 upgrade (something to buy while t2 is in queue most of the time). I do look forward to seeing more slugga play, and it will be interesting to try out double or triple sluggas as opposed to the usual 2x shoota play, but I just don't want shootas to become something not worth their price anymore.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

if that happens orks are screwed. i don't think it will happen.

[sk4zi]

i also really like this changes.
also im very glad to see both my sugestions happening (exp for infestation and gates and cost reduce of burnas)

but also regenerating nurgle preds and hormas/termas with synapse creature upgeade is very cool

looking forward to the patch

[Ar-Aamon]

Paladins passive inspiration buff reworked; now increases health regeneration of nearby allies by 2.5 hp/s and decreases received courage damage by 50%

Can someone please tell me in a few sentences the idea behind this change? I still don't get it especially the part with the courage damage.

[Nurland]

Well increased health regen should be pretty self explanatory. Less recieved courage damage means that stuff doesn't get suppressed as fast. At least according to my understanding.

[Ar-Aamon]

Ok thx that's how I thought courage damage works. No it's clear. But it still don't explain how the Paladins should fit in your army build/conception. A LRC have the same benefits and on top you get suppression.

But the health regeneration aura brings me to a next question. Is it still possible to shroud Paladins our will they be now "detected" by the green hexagons of your allied squads?

[Torpid]

Ok thx that's how I thought courage damage works. No it's clear. But it still don't explain how the Paladins should fit in your army build/conception. A LRC have the same benefits and on top you get suppression.

But the health regeneration aura brings me to a next question. Is it still possible to shroud Paladins our will they be now "detected" by the green hexagons of your allied squads?

Nah you can't see the visual effects at all, even at the moment, until infiltrated units are detected.

[Lulgrim]

Updated the list some, I'm happy to announce that this:

• Unit (squad) tabs will now be shuffled according to control groups so that they are always in numerical order

Seems to be working in current build. Tank Engine 1, Relic 0

[Torpid]

Great job! Excellent.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

webway gate abilities to "W" with gridkeys so that i don't accidentally activate them please.

give setup teams sniper formation so that shorter ranged members do not run forward to attack please.

chimeras no longer have energy; does this mean they no longer have extra armour?

[Commissar Yarrick]

Yes, tell us.

[Darkbulborb]

Don't know if mentioned already, but the T is used for both a waaagh banner and 'ave a taste for mek, and it's quite annoying when I hear him say: " 'ere, for you" and then a banner pops up xD.

[Lulgrim]

Oh the energy-as-hp thing? I thought we didn't have that any more as Cael said to remove energy. So did Chim and Russ still have the magic armor?