Tyranids and new units

[ChrisNihilus]

I don't play Tyranids and i don't like them.

That being said, since i start playing DoW2: Elite i somewhat wake up the interest of many of my friends that played Retribution times ago.

That is really good.
I told them about new units, the awesome community, the balance, etc, and now i'm playing with some of them and watching casts on Youtube.

Problem is that the ones that play Tyranids were disappointed in find out about only one new unit (and a Tier 3, so not often seen) and their interest quickly fade out as for them Elite didn't seem the expansion other ex-Retribution players enjoy.

For me it's just a couple of friends, but in a larger scale i can see a missed opportunity for attracting a good number of players.

This is simply my marketing report; i don't feel of defending or not their mentality as i have a different opinion, but having new players is good for all of us i believe.

[appiah4]

What exactly is there that can really be added for Tyranids though? Hive Guard is the only thing I can think of. They already have a cool super unit, even Malantai was pointless. They had one of the best represented rosters in the game.

[Orkfaeller]

I'd love to see a Tervigon-upgrade for the Carnifex, allowing allied units to reinforce around him. ( and removing that ability from the Swarm Lord )



And a winged armour / accessory for the Hive Tyrant.

Animations exist; just in a bad need for a fresh paintjob.

[Black Relic]

If you can fix up those wings for the HT. Send me a linked copy lol. I beg of you.

[Kvek]

I¨d like to see nids balanced before you buff them again -,-

[Dark Riku]

Tell your Nid friends their T2 got a big change too. They can really swarm the field with the new without numbers global and the endless swarm upgrades and tyranoform the battle field with the new capillary tower global.

[Bahamut]

one unit i guess could be added to the nid roster is venomthrope. That way you get zoanthrope for AI and venomthrope for AV, instead of zoanthrope for anti everything

[Orkfaeller]

Yeah, Venomthrope could propably done by meshing the Liktor and Zoan model together.

Oh, and I totally forgot, I still want Genestealer cultists.

[Alexwellace]

With that being said Elite isn't an aesthetics mod, it's a balance mod. New units are really hard to balance, i can see a Venomthrope being used to give the swarm cover but i can't imagine anything else. Balance is what is important here, the adding of new units is usually just flavor.

[ChrisNihilus]

With that being said Elite isn't an aesthetics mod, it's a balance mod. New units are really hard to balance, i can see a Venomthrope being used to give the swarm cover but i can't imagine anything else. Balance is what is important here, the adding of new units is usually just flavor.

Yes, we all know.
And i agree.

But I think the fresh gameplay is the first reason why Elite is popular.
Balance, yes, but new solutions, units, modifications are also very important.

If the gameplay doesn't seems new and exciting for ex-Retribution players, they simply won't return to DoW2 just for balance.
That seems to happen with Tyranids' players, from what i've seen.

[KanKrusha]

If the gameplay doesn't seems new and exciting for ex-Retribution players, they simply won't return to DoW2 just for balance.
That seems to happen with Tyranids' players, from what i've seen

What, both of them?

[Atlas]

Oh you wound Krusha. A gaping one like when you find out a Lictor Fleshhooked you lungs out.

In seriousness yeah, Tyranids are pretty set. There's no pressing need for anything.

[Warp Dust Addict]

Nids don't need new units.The only faction that needs new units/changes is GK.Nids already counter everything hard with the massive field presence they have.

[Jazz-Sandwich]

I've been thinking often about new nid units, but I've never come up with anything that would actually add something new to their playstyle.

For instance, using the tyrant guard animations, one could conceivably kitbash a biovore/pyrovore. However, given that zoanthropes already fill the role of artillery, there's no immediate need. Unless the zoanthrope's attributes were significantly reworked, redefining their usage and subsequently opening up a niche for a new artillery unit. But of course that would be a nightmare, both in introducing an entirely new concept for an established and functional unit, and balancing the same.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

they could both fill the same roll but in different ways. zoan being more AV for example. i don't think it's worth thinking about now though.

[Metal C0Mmander]

I think what's lacking for the tyranids right now is some sort of healer unit espescialy for the carnifexes. Problem is that no units fit that role in the lore since tyranids prefer to remake losses rather than save their units(something the requisition cost kinda stop from happening). But I guess if you where to botch the fluff a bit you could always make venomthropes or malanthropes fill that role. The venomthropes could also have the abillity to provide anti-garisson damage which is also something the tyranids lack a bit of. Beside that you could perhaps allow the zoanthrope to buy an heal in T3.

[Dark Riku]

The zoanthrope already has a HP regen aura...
And it's a very strong one too.

[Metal C0Mmander]

I'll admit that I never used the zoanthrope for that purpose which is weird since I did it all the time in the campaign. This makes me wonder if regenerative aura should be given to the doom of malan'tai too. On an other note, I still think that the tyranids should get an other form of anti-garisson in T2.

[Superhooper01]

I feel nids have plenty of units tbh would be fun to see a hive guard basically a Tyrant guard with a ranged weapon there also a few long ranged tyrant lifeforms such as a biovore which launches spore mines and pyrovores that fire bio-plasma. u could make a giant ravner which is called a Trygon or a Mawloc a similar giant creature.

Tervigon are Mobile brood nests and theres a hero creature called old one eye a fex thats re-gens like crazy. but as i said dont feel nids need more units i think chaos needs sub commander and gk a extra unit or 2 both adding stuff without thinking of balance is a bad idea

[Dark Riku]

And on what basis do you think that Nids need more anti-garrisson in T2?
You have your long range answer (zoa) and you have your melee answer (TG splash).
Then you can still have your complementary T1 options, strangler warriors and spore mines (from towers).
Although spore mines are usually only used with the LA spore mine drop which is pretty damn effective.

[Zato]

Nids needs a nerf imo. Their eco is way too good. Synapse upgrades should add to their popcap and upkeep in t2 imo. Also LA's flesh hook should not do as much damage as it does. I think there should be wargear(add to existing or make new wargear) that grants a buff to his flesh hooks damage and range. Toxin sacs should be increased to 80/20. Adrenal glands(Hormagaunts) should be increased to 75/20. Why do they have such cheap upgrades anyway? Synapse should be treated as extra popcap and upkeep for Warriors just like squad leaders such as Tacs and ASMS to balance out their eco in T2. Actually it would be better if Warriors had a squad leader that granted synapse that could be killed and have to be repurchased just like other respected leaders of others classes. That squad leader should obviously have a distinct look to stand out from the other Warriors models. Rav.A tunnels should cost 75 red but be cloaked. Tyrant Guard healing ability should cost Zero energy BUT it should deplete the Tyrant Gaurds energy pool for how ever long you use it, similar to the FC's Sword and Shield or any cloaking ability. Actually i am going to post this in the balance thread.

[Metal C0Mmander]

And on what basis do you think that Nids need more anti-garrisson in T2?
You have your long range answer (zoa) and you have your melee answer (TG splash).
Then you can still have your complementary T1 options, strangler warriors and spore mines (from towers).
Although spore mines are usually only used with the LA spore mine drop which is pretty damn effective.

God damm... Why do I keep forgeting things like the tyrant guard splash dammage. Still I think my point stand because most of the tyranids' anti-garrisson capability is only average at best when compared to other races. The zoanthrope while possessing a great range is also weak and doesn't do that much dammage alone. The warriors do even less, have medium range, are very slow firing and... FUCK I forgot if they can supress inside buldings. Anyway, the spore mines have great dammage but are easily taken out if the players is pepared and, unless they came from the lictor alpha global, have to slowly move near the building while getting pelted. With all that said I guess their T2 at least has variety in that aspect but their T1 still remain poor especialy in maps like Angel Gate.

[Swift]

My question would be why do they need buffs? They are already so powerful and things like their anti garrison and gen bashing should not be buffed.

[Torpid]

Well being weak vs buildings is pretty stupid. It's not even a proper weakness, because it's not something you can always exploit. You can't be like "hmm, on quest's heresy vs this Nid, let's exploit their weakness to buildings!". Buildings are really stupid anyway, not sure what the purpose of them is meant to be really.

[Atlas]

...Buildings are really stupid anyway, not sure what the purpose of them is meant to be really.

Little bit of snipping.

Buildings are really good with keeping some units out of melee combat imo. My major issues with buildings is that:

a) A lot of units have too many models to man windows with, and thus lose a lot of dps.

b)Setup teams take too long to shift windows to face the opponent. Also they still have a setup time while in building.(?)

[Torpid]

Going off topic again here, but honestly I would rather buildings didn't exist in the DOW multiplayer. They add a nice sense if immersion to the campaign. Yet, with the multiplayer they're just hugely simple. They're an unbeatable pest for a few engagements and then you get anti-garrison and that's it they're practically irrelevant as suddenly they become a death-trap. They just seem to disrupt the flow of the game for very little real benefit to gameplay IMO.

[Atlas]

Fair enough points.

Swerving back on topic again, my only major problem with Nids is that they somehow manage to be able to churn out Carnifexes like crazy in T3. I don't really know how it works out, but it's really a pain to deal with :/

[Torpid]

It's because they have such low population which converts in low upkeep compared to other races which when they hit T3 already have ~80pop. And then the power cost is larger irrelevant since nids have a very power unintensive T2.

[Metal C0Mmander]

Going off topic again here, but honestly I would rather buildings didn't exist in the DOW multiplayer. They add a nice sense if immersion to the campaign. Yet, with the multiplayer they're just hugely simple. They're an unbeatable pest for a few engagements and then you get anti-garrison and that's it they're practically irrelevant as suddenly they become a death-trap. They just seem to disrupt the flow of the game for very little real benefit to gameplay IMO.

While I agree that Dawn of War would still be a good game without buildings I'm gonna say I wouldn't say they make it a worse one either. I think they are a complexity to be played with or against. They are a meachanic that favor those who can use positioning better. Also it's true that as the game progress they become more and more dangerous to use until they are irelevant much later in the game but that's true of everything else in the game if it is countered properly.

[Cheah18]

Yeah I hate buildings. Just destroys balance for some races in early engagements imo