Dow1 thingy

Generic non-balance topics.
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Black Relic
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Dow1 thingy

Postby Black Relic » Mon 30 Jul, 2018 8:35 pm

Thinking about maybe seeing if I can't start a dow1 1v1 tourney sometime in the beginning of next year. Would anyone be interested is giving it a try? Would be played on dow1 Soulstorm though as it is the most balanced. With the exception of the Dark Eldar vs SM stuff that's a nightmare.
"...With every strike of his sword, with every word of his speech, does he reaffirm the ideals of our honored master..." -From the Teachings of Roboute Guilliman as laid down in the Apocrypha of Skaros. Space Marines Codex pg. 54
Atlas

Re: Dow1 thingy

Postby Atlas » Mon 30 Jul, 2018 9:40 pm

Sure I'd be more than willing. I haven't really played the game competitively so it would be an experience for me!
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Re: Dow1 thingy

Postby oLev » Tue 31 Jul, 2018 2:40 am

There is a DOWPRO mod for Soulstorm that removes the fliers and makes other balance changes to be like the more loved version Dark Crusade
Check them out here
https://discord.gg/gBN5B4
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Re: Dow1 thingy

Postby Black Relic » Tue 31 Jul, 2018 5:12 pm

I have been watching a lot of Soulstorm competitive play and honestly I don't see too many issues in terms of balance. Although there are some things that definitely need changing.

Fliers offer different play styles. The only reason people don't like them is because it changes up how you build your army, and you have to keep in mind that those are options. Now they could be limited to maybe 2-3 depending how there use, damage, cost etc so they can't be spammed.

There are some abilities I don't like too but I think everything is actually pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQKi3M ... PPI2HKEUsQ

Been watching a lot of his channel recently.

If anything Dark Eldar and Sisters need balancing in t1. Chaos Heavy bolters should go in t2 or their leader goes in t2. because atm Chaos can have Heavy Bolter and their squad leader in t1. Warp Spider exarchs imo should unlock in t3. Flamers should do slightly more range or a slight bit more morale damage. Other than that I don't see much wrong though.
"...With every strike of his sword, with every word of his speech, does he reaffirm the ideals of our honored master..." -From the Teachings of Roboute Guilliman as laid down in the Apocrypha of Skaros. Space Marines Codex pg. 54
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Re: Dow1 thingy

Postby Rostam » Tue 31 Jul, 2018 6:54 pm

About dow1
The mods are terrible, Soulstrom has the best balance overall
Eldar in dow1 is a cancer race, the rest is fine. There are some Matchups that favors the other race a bit, but there is always ways out of it
Also DE,Orks are kinda the weakest races , while IG,Eldar are perhaps the strongest

IG v SOB : favors SOB
DE v SM : favors DE
Tau v Eldar : favors Tau (Pretty much the only race that can crush elderp)
Eldar v SM : worst mu ever heavily favoring Eldar
Necrons v SM : favors SM

To give u some example of why eldar are cancer in dow1:
Dark reapers are a nighmare, highly mobile, high dps
Rangers are also cancer can get infiltrate so quickly and break squads easily
Fireprism: a tank that has range of hammerhead,Damage of predator and HP of leman russ and mobility of Ravagers and can also fly ...
...
“Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.” Leon Tolstoy
Atlas

Re: Dow1 thingy

Postby Atlas » Tue 31 Jul, 2018 7:32 pm

Time we branch back to DoW1 boyz!
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Re: Dow1 thingy

Postby Rostam » Tue 31 Jul, 2018 7:35 pm

cheers to dow1
“Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.” Leon Tolstoy
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Re: Dow1 thingy

Postby Black Relic » Tue 31 Jul, 2018 10:12 pm

Eldar is good yea but you make it sound like it is impossible when that is simply not true. While they could use some nerf to fleet of foot, they have lowish moral in t1 on a fragile unit that is also very expensive trying to spam Dark Reapers is hard to do because of that and are really poor in melee all around in t1 with banshees being the only exception. But Banshees are easy to kill with 2 tacs with grenades plus even one flamer. The only reason people hate Eldar so much is because of rangers. But they offer little and require a lot of resources. When they are compromised it is game. Now SM does have a little of a hard time due to Skull probs being meh. But at least one squad of ASM are required.

In my experience Eldar are only a hard time if you lose your scouts way to fast and you over extend your hero (which should be in range stance anyway)

Orks are one of the best imo in high level because you cannot cost effectively harass their eco in t1. All their buildings shoot. This is why you will see a pile of guns and a waaagh banner near a strategic point rather than inside their base. Because it doubles are a "turret." It is really hard to damage ork eco cost effectively. Plus their hero is automatically a infiltration detector. Has a good range weapon and hits really hard in melee. Plus he teleports making his use extremely versatile.

Tau are really hard because they only really take off in t2. If Tau is able to have their Hero, and 3 squads of fully upgraded fire warriors before then you are doing something wrong. Vespids are awfully in high level play. They are almost never cost effective. Devilfishes are awesome btw. Infiltrating Transport that can have fire warriors pop in and out.

Sisters I cannot say much other than their hero is OP when she get her inferno pistol in t1. Their Grenades for the sisters are also pretty damage but amazing a helping to break morale.

Chaos. They are extremely powerful. They are tanky with CSM, they have Raptors that are actually amazing, cultists can have disruptive grenade launchers when they get the armory up. CSM get their leader, heavy bolters and can have grenades for further disruption. If need A chaos player can get plasma pistols on their hero and the Squad leader in t1. That is actually insane. They have the most versatility in the game imo. defilers are a melee walker than can double as an artillery platform. They are good. But Chaos kinda needs their flyers in t2 though since they will have a hard time dealing with Vehicle armor. Only in t2 though. They are SOO good.

I already mentioned elder. They ok. Fleet is the only annoying thing in t1, rangers can be dealt with and zoned out. Wrap Spider again should not have their leader in t2 but in t3. But they are also expensive and SOOO fragile. If their is any for of disruption for the other enemy the Warp Spiders are going to have a REALLY hard time and die extremely fast.

Necrons. Wraiths are meh also. They are not too cost effective either. If I could I would lower their stats and increase units size from 1 to 3. That would help their survivability as a squad and not hurt the Necron eco soo much, but people don't get them because Necron Warriors cost no power to purchase. Only to reinforce. Their Turret is amazing for zoning and its almost impossible hit the necron's eco when it's army is somewhere else. Because they can just teleport back to the base. Because Necrons only have generators it is hard to hurt their eco because those generators are going to be well defended. With the turrets, any Listening posts doing that disruptive attack (that can be critical when defending a base and really push your opponent) and pathing can be a issue when trying to push through a necron base. They are pretty good. Necron Lord is OP though. People tend to forget lighting storm. If the ability is fully charged and hits flush it can nearly kill an entire Space Marine squad.

Imperial Guard. Amazing. It is hard for the to expand and tryin too take fights outside of their base in t1 is hard. but pushing against them is also hard. They have the best turret in the same and arguably the best listing post too since you can garrison in it to shoot out of. Its really hard to push them. although Dark Eldar can in t1.

Dark Eldar. Destroys almost every race in high level play in t2 with Orks being the only exception. Now their effectiveness actually also is heavily impacted by what map is being played. But while all of their units are fragile they do SOO much damage. DE Warriors do more damage them Dark Reapers vs infantry. Their Leader can stun a hero when an army is retreating and then kill that hero. They get vehicle armor in t1. They have the Hellion Squad and the Reaper Jet bikes. The Hellions actually do good in melee AND at range. Due to their mobility they can hit a listening post, decap the point and get out with minimal losses. In t1 almost no race can do it like DE. But DE falls off heavily after t1. So they do ALOT of damage in t1 move to t2 while getting somethings like Raiders and scourges then moving to t3 with an intact eco. But they hit hard. Their Hero is AMAZING and does a shit load of damage.

Space Marines. 2-3 tactical marines (maybe an ASM thrown in there if you have to) the FC, grenades, always have one scout on the field for capping and ride to t2. Hellfire dreadnought rape. They will destoy Eldar, Dark Eldar, Sisters, and Orks. Chaos and sisters have transports plus the Defialers and other things can trade well vs each other. They are ok vs IG but IG has priests that can pretty much stun the dreadnoughts. So using vehicles vs them is hard. Space Marines always got worse and worse in dow1 because they kept pushing their strong units further into the tiers. Predators got pushed back into t4 from t3. Whirlwinds kept getting nerfs in each expansion (fucking 4 pop really?) and you can only one one. And unlocks in t3. And expensive as fuck. Scouts play was HEAVILY nerf for SM t1 (understandable though) in soulstorm. Sm are similar to SM here though. You survive in t1 while trying to take cost effective engagements and minimalize your loses while you grow your eco and then transition to t2. When t2 hit you can finally play the game.


But most of the top is about t1 though. T1 heavily effect the game though. As it does in this game.
"...With every strike of his sword, with every word of his speech, does he reaffirm the ideals of our honored master..." -From the Teachings of Roboute Guilliman as laid down in the Apocrypha of Skaros. Space Marines Codex pg. 54

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