Dawn of War 3 EGX Analysis

[Blessed Spartan]

Hey guys, I hope you are all well. I've posted this here: already and you can refer to that to see any questions I've already answered. https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/8575/dawn-of-war-3-at-egx-analysis#latest

So I managed to play DOW 3 at EGX this weekend and found some interesting stuff that i would like to share with you all after playing for 3 hours.

So just some first things, i played the same build (i think?) which was at PAX so nothing completely new that you haven't already seen showed up but i feel I can definitely give more in detail information from the play thoughts then what we already received and speaking to testers there.

I also want people to bare in mind how different actually playing something is rather than spectating and how that changes your perspective on a lot of stuff!

Okay with that out the way lets start! I'm so excited! and feel free to ask more questions if i missed anything and I will be as critical and unbiased as i can.

Units
Some can shoot and move!

Some units such as Assault marines, Dire avengers( i think) and Banshees can fire whilst moving, originally when i heard they couldn't i was very worried, so I'm glad to see that this is not the case.
These units are still very reliable at killing units who are falling back for fleeing even at range so it's very similar to how DOW 1 worked ^^ this please Khorne greatly.
Special Attacks are still in!
1. Okay so you may be wondering, "but blessed, i thought specials and sync kills were removed?" well jimmy, you are half right!, Sync kills are gone, but special attacks are only on elites. Now here's what i love, relic have made it at least for Gabe, that every special attack happens on the 3rd hit animation, this animation can be cancelled, and then saved for the next engagement, meaning when Gabe next attacks it WILL be a special attack ( The Leap hammer slam, which really isn't that bad and you'll get used to it quickly"
2. Terminators have special attacks where all 3 members will do the hit on their 3rd strike. Line units do not have special attacks.
3. Sync kills have been translated to ranged death animations, units explode or have limbs blown off and are different depending on what weapon the model interacts with, there is a lot of detail placed here!
4. there is now no RNG

Vehicles Refined
3. Tanks now reverse how they did in dow 2 and rear Armour is still a think, the collision is vastly improved meaning tanks wont get stuck on cover although infantry can still surround them.
4. Flying units, ( my personal fav thing) are fast and responsive, they work excellent and feel like actual skimmers this time around.
5. Tanks can be damaged by small arms fire but more like dow 2 than 1, though banshees can rip through it like tissue paper if not protected

Infantry
1. infantry functions very similarly to league of legends in the responsiveness, this means no worrying about a unit not following a command. I can see why they got rid of dynamic squad movement as sometimes in dow 2 members would get separated and go on their on mission or be left behind meaning when you retreated the squad would regroup/wait then retreat when everyone was in range. this was not ideal.
2. Grenades are clearer to see, but not easy to dodge, it just means that players have more of a visual cue to know its coming which is great, as in the next point you will appreciate all the help you can get.
3. Units drop like flies. Imagine an army of DOW 2 scouts fighting, that's the speed of which units fall, meaning that keeping on top of engagements is really important, although they die quickly, they are still important and expensive, its not about throwing units at each other however, its about positioning and planning, much like dow 1.
4. The animations are... interesting, but you will really not be focusing on that in the fire fights and battles, it actually helps in a way because you can clearly see things on the screen. We designers call these visual ques where we ask that certain aspects be exaggerated so that players notice things easier, there's a lot going on in dow 3 so it helps.
5. Dire avengers are glass cannons as always but they totally out range tacs
6. Banshees are still broke and unless your asm jump them they will most likely get #rekt
7. Scouts (Default) have automatic cloak, while the snipers do not. Snipers are op btw
8. Tac marines can be upgraded to have flamers and plasma rifles, ( One member of the squad gets the flamer, the others keep their bolters) and Relic have the original green template from the table top to show the area of effect.

Combat in melee
3. totally refined, the sound design is great and you can hear the sfx of chains cutting flesh ect its great!
4. Melee charge!. Do you remember when everyone commented how odd it looked when a terminator sped up, same with a dread? Units now have a heavy increased speed when the go into melee meaning you can get into our pull out of melee very easily, for example, i was fighting banshees and i went into melee with my scouts then instantly pulled them out giving them a speed boost whilst kiting them and having tacs gun them down.
5. units when killed are sent flying and have this awesome ragdoll effect, they now fall of cliffs correctly!

The Mini map and UI layout

Everything's been moved around a bit, but you can hot key your bases up easily as normal or you can use the tabs on the side which will quickly bring you to your bases

Space marines can build multiple of any building, apart from a strong hold, ( This may change in multiplayer) meaning at one point i was spawning 3 tac marine squads at one time, very much like dow 1
The minimap is clear once you know what you're units an opponent’s units are and I found that i was able to utilise it easily. I would recommend that relic tone down the white on this particular map however because things should be clear at first glance and not studying for a couple of mins.
3.So I’m hoping this won’t stay this way, but you cannot rotate the camera or zoom into combat like before. this will be an as some of the level design such as highit is hard to determine from the default angle. i hope this is changed.
Resource

Resource is no even more important, you can build turrets/listening posts on your resource points which may have a number of both Power, and Req slots. What makes them more important is that both your power and req are here, having them denied means that its more detrimental to you as you cannot build power at your base.
This in turns forces player interaction and counter acts turtuling. A race like IG will still be able to turtle but they will also be required to commit reosuirces to gaining map control and the locking down key areas
Attention to detail
1. Foot prints in the snow, bolter fire exploding when it hits units
2. Vocal interaction between forces " That one! he has a heavy bolter" and other lines are noticeable and great
3. Gabe has his classic lines " He who stands with me, shall be my brother
4. The lascannon is totally wrong! however, one of the issues i had in dow 1 and 2 was knowing where i was being hit from, particular the lazcannon or autocannon so io can see why they've made this a continuous beam. perhaps they should make it identical to dow 2, but leave a trail of smoke, like halo 2's Sniper rifle.
5. When you do find time to zoom in, there is a lot of detail on the models. no cracks to show battle damage but as mentioned before that they die so quickly it makes sense,
6. Your elite deaths are brutal, when Gabe dies, depending on what he's hit with, he can get blown to pieces, or head shot and a blood splat will show right where he fell, its great but hard to articulate without you playing it yourself.
7. The atmosphere is great and actually, despite the colorful look its very grim, the music is similar to that of the trailer, the death cries, and persistent bodies makes everything depressing, its very 40k!

Dow 3 is essentially dow 1 HD with some key things of dow 2 such as leveling, the focus on map control and abilities. I truly believe that if you adored dow 1 then you will truely be at home in dow 3. Dow 2 fans, i am a dow 2 player, with 3k hours on that game and this has me super excited
Okay im going to stop here and let you guys ask questions theres more to talk about but we will be here forever.

[Blessed Spartan]

Just realised i put this in the wrong place!

[Paranoid Kamikaze]

Good to hear this. Can you still put overwatch on units so they constantly produce?

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Good to hear about a good vehicle pathing and Tactical weapons. Rest of information is kinda meh, tbh, and making me going more and more to the "fuck this shiet, I'm out" option with every piece of information I get from DOW3.

And I'm disappointed about the erase of synckills. They went for the easy and lazy way.

[Paranoid Kamikaze]

And I'm disappointed about the erase of synckills. They went for the easy and lazy way.

They went for the best 'no compromises' way. I'm glad that they're taking this game seriously and doing what needs to be done.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

And I'm disappointed about the erase of synckills. They went for the easy and lazy way.

They went for the best 'no compromises' way. I'm glad that they're taking this game seriously and doing what needs to be done.

TBH, I fail to see where eliminate one of the things that makes DOW different from other RTS its "taking this game seriously" (for balance sake, i suppose?) and more when they can easily do synckills which last 1.5-2 seconds maximun. Keeps part of the spirit of the game and balance is barely affected.

[KanKrusha]

Thanks for posting this. It mostly sounds good to me. I thought the choice to have power and req at the same point was a bit odd - why not just have one type of resource? However, I get the impression you thought it worked out well.

[Paranoid Kamikaze]

And I'm disappointed about the erase of synckills. They went for the easy and lazy way.

They went for the best 'no compromises' way. I'm glad that they're taking this game seriously and doing what needs to be done.

TBH, I fail to see where eliminate one of the things that makes DOW different from other RTS its "taking this game seriously" (for balance sake, i suppose?) and more when they can easily do synckills which last 1.5-2 seconds maximun. Keeps part of the spirit of the game and balance is barely affected.

1.5-2 seconds is game changing especially with DoW 3's hero system. It's already bad enough in DoW 2 when an Avatar tries to kill Gaunts, but that's in T3. Imagine throughout the entire game. Something that randomly takes away control from the player is a bad thing. It's frustrating and frustration is the main reason people leave games.

[Torpid]

1.5-2 seconds is game changing especially with DoW 3's hero system. It's already bad enough in DoW 2 when an Avatar tries to kill Gaunts, but that's in T3. Imagine throughout the entire game. Something that randomly takes away control from the player is a bad thing. It's frustrating and frustration is the main reason people leave games.

I'd say boredom is the main reason people leave games, not frustration. But yeah, it certainly doesn't help competitive play that's for sure. But I think for most players, casual players, it would have been a plus and given that the game looks entirely casual driven so far (and sounds it from what they have said) I think maybe they should have kept them.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

They went for the best 'no compromises' way. I'm glad that they're taking this game seriously and doing what needs to be done.

TBH, I fail to see where eliminate one of the things that makes DOW different from other RTS its "taking this game seriously" (for balance sake, i suppose?) and more when they can easily do synckills which last 1.5-2 seconds maximun. Keeps part of the spirit of the game and balance is barely affected.

1.5-2 seconds is game changing especially with DoW 3's hero system. It's already bad enough in DoW 2 when an Avatar tries to kill Gaunts, but that's in T3. Imagine throughout the entire game. Something that randomly takes away control from the player is a bad thing. It's frustrating and frustration is the main reason people leave games.

Of course, because the Avatar synckill animation last a fuckton of time. Change that longass animation to a 1.5 synckill animation where the Avatar simply squish the gaunt with his foot.

I though people left DOW 2 because of his shitty balance or the big amount of bugs (some of then that could easily been fixed in seconds). That, with the reduced effort of THQ/Relic to make the game more competitive and the lack of publicity were the things that made DOW 2 didn't have a competitive scene.

While in part I agree with you, remove things that aren't in control of the player aren't at all a important thing in a MOBA style, path that it seems is going DOW 3 (and I don't like it at all). Take for example DOTA 2, with fuckton of passives and shit that aren't in control of the player that could change the tide of a battle.

[Asmon]

I also think that to remove sync-kill entirely is a lazy decision. An improvement would be to have a switch option on any unit that allows it to perform sync-kills... or not to.

This way it becomes a true tactic move to turn it on, for example when your walker is under heavy fire and that you know every sync-kill it performs grants him 95% incoming damage reduction, saving you just enough time to deal with the anti-armor threat.

In a similar way you'd obviously turn it off when you don't want to waste any time wiping models.

Plus, I think some duels like FC vs Carnifex or Ava vs GUO are too awesome not to end with a sync-kill, and it could indeed be shorter than their current duration in dow2.

[Arbit]

Having units randomly go invincible (or gain gigantic damage reduction) is just kind of a shitty mechanic IMHO. The only way I'd want to see it implemented is a pre-game toggle that you can set in the lobby, with no invincibility or damage reduction when sync-killing, BUT, units that perform a sync kill get extra XP (or generate more red) so it is a risk vs reward decision.

@Blessed Spartan
I don't think I've seen these questions answered anywhere and I'm hella eager to know
- What is the reinforcement mechanic? Can units be reinforced? Is it reinforce anywhere like in DoW 1, reinforce near req points, reinforce near HQ, etc?

- Is there a "red" resource?

also

4. Melee charge!. Do you remember when everyone commented how odd it looked when a terminator sped up, same with a dread? Units now have a heavy increased speed when the go into melee meaning you can get into our pull out of melee very easily, for example, i was fighting banshees and i went into melee with my scouts then instantly pulled them out giving them a speed boost whilst kiting them and having tacs gun them down.

Does this mean units can walk out of a melee engagement now? Or do all melee units have powerful enough sidearms that they will eventually shoot down squads that try to run out of melee?

[Paranoid Kamikaze]

No, sync kills just don't work in any aspect for DoW 3. They have already made it clear that they're making the 'tells' a focused part of the game and if you're doing a sync kill while a 'tell' is happening, you'll press the button to counter it and it'll do nothing. Being able to counter something and then not countering it because your unit decided to randomly do a sync kills isn't fun. Sync kills don't work in multiplayer games, which is why every other game that has them only does so in single player.

[Blessed Spartan]

Sync kills are bad for rts gameplay, but only because they were random, if they worked as executions they would of been fine.

anyway, @Arbit to answer your question, units can only be reinforced via drop pod, or near a building, even if that building is anywhere on the map.

[Paranoid Kamikaze]

Sync kills are bad for rts gameplay, but only because they were random, if they worked as executions they would of been fine.

anyway, @Arbit to answer your question, units can only be reinforced via drop pod, or near a building, even if that building is anywhere on the map.

How would executions work?

[KanKrusha]

There has been a thread on this in the community forum. If you think you are going to get a kill you can click a button which will give you a beneficial aura (eg the unit or all allies do increased damage in a range) and you get a sync kill animation. And it would be cancellable (as this is the essence engine I think the unit would be animation locked so I don't think cancellation feasible).

From my point of view this is an "ability".

I assume the invincibility period is intended not to be a part of it by the posters. Mind you with slow lascannons the invincibility period is probably much less of an issue than in DOW2

To clarify this is what community posters are suggesting and nothing to do with relic

[Blessed Spartan]

There has been a thread on this in the community forum. If you think you are going to get a kill you can click a button which will give you a beneficial aura (eg the unit or all allies do increased damage in a range) and you get a sync kill animation. And it would be cancellable (as this is the essence engine I think the unit would be animation locked so I don't think cancellation feasible).

From my point of view this is an "ability".

I assume the invincibility period is intended not to be a part of it by the posters. Mind you with slow lascannons the invincibility period is probably much less of an issue than in DOW2

To clarify this is what community posters are suggesting and nothing to do with relic

Yes this was the idea i put forward a while ago. Sadly i don't think it would make sense in this type of games as units are no longer as important as in dow 2. It would have suited that game better.

[Carnevour]

Still cant get over on why would someone want sync kills in the game. Yeah ok first 10 times it looks nice but after it just becomes a complete nuisance and the ideas of adding a mechanic to something that takes away control from the player as well is utterly insane. They were nothing more than an eye candy for the first hours of the game until they become frustrating and annoying. Good thing that relic instead put more gore and things like bodies being chopped in half, exploded or burned instead.

[Gorbles]

I'd understand why people thought the removal was lazy if:

a) this hadn't happened to Retribution (to a lesser degree) for the sake of game balance, and

b) this hadn't been replaced by updated tech around death animations and FX.

To me, that's honestly the puzzling bit. I can understand peoples' desire for the more visceral sync kills even though I don't agree it's a healthy game mechanic (and I'm nowhere near any kind of high-level play).

[MaxPower]

I wouldnt call units exploding into gibs a suitable replacement for sync kills though, if the ranged sync kills (or death animations) would be great sure no prob, but right now they look mediocre.

And yes I get y they removed sync kills, but still, it makes me sad, cause killing a carnifex with a lightning sword (either FC or ASM Sarge) is one of the coolest sync kills only a close second after the fc with thunderhammer vs warboss.

But yeah, balance first.

[Gorbles]

Sure, but "suitable" is arguable until the end of time. There's never going to be a solution everyone is happy with here, because as amazingly broken as sync kills could be, a load of players loved them.

[Paranoid Kamikaze]

Still cant get over on why would someone want sync kills in the game. Yeah ok first 10 times it looks nice but after it just becomes a complete nuisance and the ideas of adding a mechanic to something that takes away control from the player as well is utterly insane. They were nothing more than an eye candy for the first hours of the game until they become frustrating and annoying. Good thing that relic instead put more gore and things like bodies being chopped in half, exploded or burned instead.

I agree with this completely. Sync kills don't belong and going so far as to try and make it an ability doesn't fix anything. It will still mess up squad formations even with this 'ability'. Sync kills should be kept single player only. Like every other game.

Also, why are there so many people complaining about Gabriel jumping in terminator armour? Aren't sync kills just as unbelievable? A Space Marine finding a cool way to kill a Warboss while his battle brothers die around him doesn't really fit the lore.

[Aguxyz]

Still cant get over on why would someone want sync kills in the game. Yeah ok first 10 times it looks nice but after it just becomes a complete nuisance and the ideas of adding a mechanic to something that takes away control from the player as well is utterly insane. They were nothing more than an eye candy for the first hours of the game until they become frustrating and annoying. Good thing that relic instead put more gore and things like bodies being chopped in half, exploded or burned instead.

I agree with this completely. Sync kills don't belong and going so far as to try and make it an ability doesn't fix anything. It will still mess up squad formations even with this 'ability'. Sync kills should be kept single player only. Like every other game.

Also, why are there so many people complaining about Gabriel jumping in terminator armour? Aren't sync kills just as unbelievable? A Space Marine finding a cool way to kill a Warboss while his battle brothers die around him doesn't really fit the lore.

This means you havent read enough lore. When you kill THE WARBOSS on that waaaaagh all the orks will start to panic for a bit wondering what to do since that the warboss got killed and even your dieing battle brothers will be inspired to fight hard before they even die since they saw one of their brothers kill the warboss.

[Carnevour]

Still cant get over on why would someone want sync kills in the game. Yeah ok first 10 times it looks nice but after it just becomes a complete nuisance and the ideas of adding a mechanic to something that takes away control from the player as well is utterly insane. They were nothing more than an eye candy for the first hours of the game until they become frustrating and annoying. Good thing that relic instead put more gore and things like bodies being chopped in half, exploded or burned instead.

I agree with this completely. Sync kills don't belong and going so far as to try and make it an ability doesn't fix anything. It will still mess up squad formations even with this 'ability'. Sync kills should be kept single player only. Like every other game.

Also, why are there so many people complaining about Gabriel jumping in terminator armour? Aren't sync kills just as unbelievable? A Space Marine finding a cool way to kill a Warboss while his battle brothers die around him doesn't really fit the lore.

This means you havent read enough lore. When you kill THE WARBOSS on that waaaaagh all the orks will start to panic for a bit wondering what to do since that the warboss got killed and even your dieing battle brothers will be inspired to fight hard before they even die since they saw one of their brothers kill the warboss.

They dont ''unrealistically'' stand atop of the Warboss shoulders and beat him with a hammer over the head either.

[Aguxyz]

If you beat his ass good enough it could happen since warbosses usually want to challenge the best/commander of the group/army to 1v1 combat

[Black Relic]

Also, why are there so many people complaining about Gabriel jumping in terminator armour?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVL3GL6Oymw

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Sync kills, with some exceptions (AKA "fuck gravity" slugga/stormboy jump synckill) are pretty realistic. Some of them last too long, but that's something that IMO all agree.

The Warboss/FC hammer sync kill is realistic in terms of "if is possible to do" in the Warhammer 40k universe. Of course, in a big firefight with thousands of orks shooting a Space Marine isn't going to last long in the shoulders of a Warboss, being a easy target for receive tons of dakka. But in small skirmish and if we have in mind the 1vs1 mentality that Warboss often had, isn't impossible to happen.

Also, why are there so many people complaining about Gabriel jumping in terminator armour?

Because, according with the Warhammer 40k lore, if you want to jump that distance with a Terminator armour which weights like 400 kg you needs to be a Primarch or the Emprah. And Gabriel Angelos isn't any of that.

[Black Relic]

Even primarchs had a hard time in terminator armor. It was less of them jumping and more of them moving while the generator on the armor failed. Because in most cases the marine inside should not be able to move.

[Gorbles]

I like how we're debating fantasy space science like it's a real thing that doesn't contradict itself ten times a minute.

[Carnevour]

I like how we're debating fantasy space science like it's a real thing that doesn't contradict itself ten times a minute.

Some people just dont see a log in their eyes.