Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Generic non-balance topics.
KanKrusha
Level 3
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue 09 Apr, 2013 9:10 am

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby KanKrusha » Sat 11 May, 2013 8:49 pm

Heretics are actually labelled cultists in the files. Must have been changed to heretics during game development, presumably because they are different from cultists in dow1
Servant of CTan
Level 1
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Servant of CTan » Sun 12 May, 2013 2:20 pm

I know the team doesn't really have any modelers or animators to add the factions/units that are constantly requested, and I don't know anyone who has experience in those areas, but what if we, the DOW 2 Elite community pooled money and hired some animators, and modelers to add the requested stuff for us.

Something like that would free the mod team from having to create assets from scratch, and it would allow fan requested units/factions (Slaneesh Champion, Necrons, ect.) to make it into the game.

Good idea? Bad Idea?
PanKiller
Level 1
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue 30 Apr, 2013 6:45 pm

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby PanKiller » Sun 12 May, 2013 3:23 pm

If i could pay by sms i am rdy to do so if u add new units.
User avatar
Lulgrim
Admin
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Grimdark
Contact:

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Lulgrim » Sun 12 May, 2013 5:16 pm

Servant of CTan wrote:I know the team doesn't really have any modelers or animators to add the factions/units that are constantly requested, and I don't know anyone who has experience in those areas, but what if we, the DOW 2 Elite community pooled money and hired some animators, and modelers to add the requested stuff for us.

Something like that would free the mod team from having to create assets from scratch, and it would allow fan requested units/factions (Slaneesh Champion, Necrons, ect.) to make it into the game.

Good idea? Bad Idea?

Er... I would be positively surprised if you could raise a few hundred, and for faction assets... Well, assume one artist would work for a few thousand $ a month, and we would need a few of them working for a few months... You can see where this is going, I hope.
PanKiller
Level 1
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue 30 Apr, 2013 6:45 pm

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby PanKiller » Sun 12 May, 2013 5:50 pm

Give me a tool and i shall pay 10 dollars a month .
User avatar
Raffa
Level 4
Posts: 580
Joined: Tue 30 Jul, 2013 1:41 pm
Location: England

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Raffa » Sun 12 May, 2013 9:01 pm

@Lulgrim

Before I start this want to make clear I'm not asking for new units, just wondering what it would cost, hypothetically, to make them fully playable.

So what would it cost (approximately, just as close as you can) to make, for the sake of argument:

a) Legion of the Damned. By which I basically mean using the tactical marine model but with extra animations for fire, skulls, weapons & ammo, redesigned armor, etc but still not changing the model's actions

b) Necron Warriors, with everything built from scratch

I'm just curious to see what it would take, especially for models like in a) that would require new animations but not actually changing the model itself in concept. And how long you think it would take.
User avatar
Lulgrim
Admin
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Grimdark
Contact:

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Lulgrim » Sun 12 May, 2013 10:50 pm

I really have no idea. I have absolutely no knowledge of video game production and I've never even studied anything remotely connected to computers.

That said, Legion of the Luled customized chapter? One guy with modeling & texturing skills could do it in a few weeks I think. Necrons faction? Would take several people several months. I don't know how expensive 3D artists are but just consider what people generally get paid for working and guesstimate from there. No, we are not commissioning assets in this reality...
Servant of CTan
Level 1
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Servant of CTan » Mon 13 May, 2013 3:16 am

Lulgrim wrote:I really have no idea. I have absolutely no knowledge of video game production and I've never even studied anything remotely connected to computers.

That said, Legion of the Luled customized chapter? One guy with modeling & texturing skills could do it in a few weeks I think. Necrons faction? Would take several people several months. I don't know how expensive 3D artists are but just consider what people generally get paid for working and guesstimate from there. No, we are not commissioning assets in this reality...


Good points, I guess would be a little too 'out there' for the community to feasibly support it.

I just brought it up because I remember reading a post that mentioned the DOW: FoK team hiring an artist to add the grey knights faction.

In the off chance that something like this would be considered, I would support it.
User avatar
Raffa
Level 4
Posts: 580
Joined: Tue 30 Jul, 2013 1:41 pm
Location: England

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Raffa » Mon 13 May, 2013 4:37 pm

I'm not talking about a customised chapter mate.

I'm saying that if a modder could create good new animations for a new unit(s), possibly not even having to change the model's actions like melee hitting, firing, spec attacking, etc.. there would be quite a few people willing to stump up for it.

Taking Legion as the example, say we could get the models made (not talking cheap shit, I mean proper stuff that looks the real deal), then yes people would be willing to pay for it if there was some kind of guarantee it would see the light of day.

Say you offered I dunno $7-10 an hour. For what 30 hours max? I suspect there will be a few modders you could find who'd be willing to have this as a project for a few weeks.

Think you wouldn't have a lot of trouble finding 30 people to split that cost between.
User avatar
Lulgrim
Admin
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Grimdark
Contact:

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Lulgrim » Mon 13 May, 2013 4:59 pm

DJ Raffa wrote:I'm not talking about a customised chapter mate.

I'm saying that if a modder could create good new animations for a new unit(s), possibly not even having to change the model's actions like melee hitting, firing, spec attacking, etc...

No comprendo
User avatar
Raffa
Level 4
Posts: 580
Joined: Tue 30 Jul, 2013 1:41 pm
Location: England

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Raffa » Mon 13 May, 2013 5:06 pm

Take the tac marine squad. Add flames, skulls, flashy bullets, new armour, etc...

Basically making a model that is different in the same way that the tac marine is different from the csm/sternguard/plaguemarine-with-bolter/techmarine/etc, ie looks different, acts the same.

Comprendo?
User avatar
Lost Son of Nikhel
Contributor
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed 13 Feb, 2013 4:26 pm
Location: The Warp

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Lost Son of Nikhel » Mon 13 May, 2013 5:20 pm

Hadrun make some Legion of the Damned mini, with flames and stuff.

I suppose this is not what you want, but, well...

Post 131

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread. ... 1045275944
"Pater, peccavi in caelum et coram te; iam non sum dignus vocari filius tuus". Dixit autem pater: "manducemus et epulemur, quia hic filius meus mortuus erat et revixit, perierat et inventus est"

There will be no forgiveness for us.
User avatar
Nuclear Arbitor
Level 5
Posts: 1106
Joined: Tue 12 Feb, 2013 2:56 am

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Nuclear Arbitor » Tue 14 May, 2013 12:33 am

yes, animation reuse would make things a lot simpler. the issue being, that can only be done if you have animations that fit.
User avatar
Lulgrim
Admin
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Grimdark
Contact:

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Lulgrim » Tue 14 May, 2013 5:48 am

DJ Raffa wrote:Take the tac marine squad. Add flames, skulls, flashy bullets, new armour, etc...

Basically making a model that is different in the same way that the tac marine is different from the csm/sternguard/plaguemarine-with-bolter/techmarine/etc, ie looks different, acts the same.

Comprendo?

Why are you talking about new animations then? Still no comprendo.
User avatar
Nuclear Arbitor
Level 5
Posts: 1106
Joined: Tue 12 Feb, 2013 2:56 am

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Nuclear Arbitor » Tue 14 May, 2013 6:42 am

because anytime animations can be reused saves time and hence money.
User avatar
Lulgrim
Admin
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Grimdark
Contact:

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Lulgrim » Tue 14 May, 2013 12:41 pm

Follow the discourse brother. "Because reusing animations saves time" is a weird answer for "Why would we need new animations?"

He said:
DJ Raffa wrote:I'm not talking about a customised chapter mate.

I'm saying that if a modder could create good new animations for a new unit(s)

And I am asking why are we talking about new animations for a Spess re-skin (although he is saying it's not a re-skin but that's what he is describing) as we have had Spess animations since 2009 courtesy of, er, Relic...
Servant of CTan
Level 1
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Servant of CTan » Tue 14 May, 2013 1:04 pm

What about the models/animations from the first DoW? I know next to nothing about modding the game, so is there a reason why one couldn't pull some of the models over from the first game?

Obviously the models would look very low quality compared to the shinier DoW 2 ones, but couldn't the models/animations be used as placeholder assets?
User avatar
Raffa
Level 4
Posts: 580
Joined: Tue 30 Jul, 2013 1:41 pm
Location: England

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Raffa » Tue 14 May, 2013 1:35 pm

Servant of CTan wrote:What about the models/animations from the first DoW?/quote]

Small problem. It's illegal.

Lulgrim wrote:Why are you talking about new animations then? Still no comprendo.


Think I've confused people here..scrap what I said previously. Ok basically for a new unit to come through first of all we need the assets for the damn unit. You said we don't have new assets cos there's no animator/modeller. Ok fuck that is a pretty big problem but what I'm saying is if you can find someone to work part time to make new units, with new animations for abilities and new fx, then I'm willing to chip in money to pay for it.
Servant of CTan
Level 1
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Servant of CTan » Tue 14 May, 2013 2:07 pm

It's illegal to use the DOW assets in DOW 2? Even for a free to use mod?

Well its probobly a good thing I can't mod then, because I would have been pulling over the Necrons first chance I got lol.

Hmm... Okay, so we can't use the old assets (I don't know why, it's the same universe, from a game by the same company; but anyway legal reasons), and hiring an artist for a whole faction, would be too cost prohibitive/time consuming.

What if we had an artist create ONLY the Necron Lord (Hero) and Necron Warriors (Unit)? Then put them in the game, and see how much support the community would give to have the rest of the faction implemented?

Obviously, a one unit faction would be grossly UP, but if the team could add in the assets piecemeal, they could slowly create the faction, as the models/animations were finished.
User avatar
Raffa
Level 4
Posts: 580
Joined: Tue 30 Jul, 2013 1:41 pm
Location: England

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Raffa » Tue 14 May, 2013 2:20 pm

Lulgrim wrote:Well, assume one artist would work for a few thousand $ a month, and we would need a few of them working for a few months... You can see where this is going, I hope.


@Ctan
Unless you're willing to stump up ~$10K don't raise necrons as a topic again thx

Otherwise I shall put $20 a month towards paying for a modeller/animator if enough people are willing to. New thread?
Servant of CTan
Level 1
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Servant of CTan » Tue 14 May, 2013 5:14 pm

DJ Raffa wrote:
Lulgrim wrote:Well, assume one artist would work for a few thousand $ a month, and we would need a few of them working for a few months... You can see where this is going, I hope.


@Ctan
Unless you're willing to stump up ~$10K don't raise necrons as a topic again thx

Otherwise I shall put $20 a month towards paying for a modeller/animator if enough people are willing to. New thread?


Oops... Sorry, didn't mean to annoy people with my ramblings, I'll shut up about the Necrons now.

Sometimes the fanboy in me gets carried away. :)
User avatar
Lulgrim
Admin
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Grimdark
Contact:

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Lulgrim » Tue 14 May, 2013 6:29 pm

I suppose you could contact known artists - like Shuma on RN, we have used a ton of his models - and see if they have any interest in doing stuff for compensation (maybe less than a professional artist with no hobby interest of any sort, maybe a per-asset compensation).
User avatar
Raffa
Level 4
Posts: 580
Joined: Tue 30 Jul, 2013 1:41 pm
Location: England

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Raffa » Tue 14 May, 2013 7:25 pm

Lulgrim wrote:I suppose you could contact known artists - like Shuma on RN


I know of the guy. Give me Shuma's email and steam and I'll see what I can do. For the record which models are his?
User avatar
Spartan717
Level 2
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue 26 Mar, 2013 11:35 am
Location: AU

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Spartan717 » Wed 15 May, 2013 1:35 pm

Blood ravage is currently working on a few models for destroyer mod.


As for Shuma. He made the following which are used in Elite mod

- Force commander helmet
- Pain boy (mad dok)
- Space marine sargent helmet
- Stern guard Armour (Mark 8)
- Space marine Librarian helmet and armour
- Chaos aspiring champion
- Tzeentch marines
- Chaos terminators
- Kasrkin


I think he made a few more things as well.
Servant of CTan
Level 1
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Servant of CTan » Thu 23 May, 2013 5:07 pm

Suggestion #1:

Make Plague Marines an upgrade for CSM rather than a separate unit.

Why?
Give the Chaos player a little more flexibility (AV-wise) while at the same time freeing up T2 for potential future units.

I know I'm not in top tier player skill, but I was just thinking about how SM tac squads can switch out for rockets on the field, so why not give Chaos a (semi) equivalent? Obviously a "Mark of Nurgle" upgrade for your CSMs would be permanent (like MoK & MoT) so it wouldn't be just a straight copy of the SM tac squads, who can swap out weapons for different situations.

Just use the 'upgrade' animation that MoK & MoT CSM get (Nurgle themed obviously), and use the existing plague marine model/animations when the upgrade is finished.

Like I said above, I'm no top level player, so I wouldn't know how much such an upgrade should cost, and whether it would be OP or not. I just wanted to make a suggestion and see how the community would like it.

Suggestion # 2:

Make certain unit abilities/upgrades 'easier' depending on what hero you are playing as.

Why?

Because I think it would be cool lol. What I mean by easier is allow upgrades/powers to be available at a reduced cost depending on the hero used. Using my first suggestion as an example, what if a Plague Champion could purchase the MoN upgrade for his CSM at a cheaper amount then the CL or CS could? The other heroes could still purchase/use the abilities of the units, but they would have to pay the standard fee associated with it.

Think of this as an extension to the Hero global summon powers. An Eldar player can get a Seer Council, but a FS gets it cheaper, and faster. This way, hero choice would account for more varied playstyles; why spam TCSMs when a CL can use KCSMs?

Again, I am not at high level play, so I wouldn't know if such a take on hero interaction would limit/hinder some builds or make certain commanders OP, I just think it would be cool if one's hero had a larger impact on the way players utilized their armies.

Thoughts?
User avatar
Lulgrim
Admin
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Grimdark
Contact:

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Lulgrim » Thu 23 May, 2013 5:16 pm

Servant of CTan wrote:An Eldar player can get a Seer Council, but a FS gets it cheaper, and faster.

And pays Global Resource for it, and loses a global ability slot...
dance commander
Level 2
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri 22 Feb, 2013 12:10 pm

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby dance commander » Thu 23 May, 2013 5:57 pm

Lulgrim would it be technically possible to remove the missile launcher from plague marines, lower the cost and put it as an upgrade instead? That way they would be a bit more flexible while ending up costing the same with the missile launcher.
Last edited by dance commander on Thu 23 May, 2013 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Raffa
Level 4
Posts: 580
Joined: Tue 30 Jul, 2013 1:41 pm
Location: England

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Raffa » Thu 23 May, 2013 5:58 pm

Servant of CTan wrote:Make Plague Marines an upgrade for CSM rather than a separate unit.


Don't wanna seem like I'm beating on you...but let me strongly disagree here. Cos:

a) I'm not a fan of changing what's not broken
b) No balance reason to change them
c) Smells distinctly of fluff not balance reasoning

Servant of CTan wrote:Make certain unit abilities/upgrades 'easier' depending on what hero you are playing as.


a) I'm not a fan of changing what's not broken
b) No balance reason to change them
c) Smells distinctly of fluff not balance reasoning

Don't take this the wrong way man :D
Servant of CTan
Level 1
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Servant of CTan » Thu 23 May, 2013 7:02 pm

DJ Raffa wrote:
Servant of CTan wrote:Make Plague Marines an upgrade for CSM rather than a separate unit.


Don't wanna seem like I'm beating on you...but let me strongly disagree here. Cos:

a) I'm not a fan of changing what's not broken
b) No balance reason to change them
c) Smells distinctly of fluff not balance reasoning

Servant of CTan wrote:Make certain unit abilities/upgrades 'easier' depending on what hero you are playing as.


a) I'm not a fan of changing what's not broken
b) No balance reason to change them
c) Smells distinctly of fluff not balance reasoning

Don't take this the wrong way man :D


No worries, like I said I'm not top tier so I wouldn't know if this would impact higher levels of play negatively.

True my suggestions are heavily inspired by the lore, but I think that their inclusion will help provide more options to players.

"If its not broke don't fix it." Is a very true saying within game balance, but I think a "because its cool, its in the lore." additions still have their place, I mean if Elite was only about balance, why add the Grey Knights? Why not just balance the existing factions, why add a new (sub)faction to SM that could potentially throw off balance?

Also, I would say (from my noobish skill level), that having an CSM to PM upgrade would help out Chaos against vehicles, at least during the first engagement. Instead of have to purchase PM, wait for them to arrive, and then slowly walk them over to said vehicle; a Chaos player could react with a quick MoN upgrade to his CSM and hold his own instead of having to retreat/wait for back up.

Yeah I know a good player will prepare for a vehicle, but a SM play can quickly adapt with his Tac squad to at the very least put pressure on, if not kill the vehicle, without having to purchase and wait on a separate unit.

It's this quick, on the field adaptation, that I was going for with my suggestion; I don't know how it would affect the meta game, but I feel, having the ability to quickly get AV for your infantry army would help.
User avatar
Nuclear Arbitor
Level 5
Posts: 1106
Joined: Tue 12 Feb, 2013 2:56 am

Re: Wish Lists (for beyond 2.1)

Postby Nuclear Arbitor » Thu 23 May, 2013 7:55 pm

CSM do not have room in their upgrade column for more stuff. they have EW, MoT, MoK, and a sarge; that is 4.

Return to “Community General Discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests