Dawn of War Codex

Integration of Shuma's Plague Lord

Wut?

• Adds a T3 armour upgrade for the Plague Champion, turning him into a Plague Lord (like Typhus, Herald of Nurgle.)
• Costs 300/150, walks through cover/cannot be suppressed. Resets level and grants 2000 HP with beastly regeneration (like Plague Marines). Unable to level thereafter.
• Passive slow effect (like Plague Marines). Same walking speed as PC with Armor of Pestilence.
• Armed with a two-handed Scythe (see pics). 75 DPS power melee, 10 power melee splash, 5 piercing damage per second for 2 seconds DoT. No ranged weapon.
• Can purchase Icon of Nurgle for 125/25, same as the PC's.
• Loses the ability to repair and build turrets.

Why?

Yeah.... this doesn't really have a purely balance consideration I suppose. It's not filling any hole. It is just badass, has a very high quality model (if it works), fits the fluff, gives a different playstyle for the PC, and isn't OP.









Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield option for the Force Commander

As discussed here.

Mekboy Turret Reworked

Wut?

Rework the Mekboy's turret into something akin to the Imperial Guard's multi-las turret. Something cheap that can be used for aggressive pushes early on, decent DPS to infantry, moderate range, but no suppression. Helps the Orks to setup quick defenses and synergise with the Banners.

Why?

The current Mekboy turret is rarely used, because it's a pile of ass. Damage and suppression rate seems to suck compared to the Techmarine's and Plague Champion's turrets. Let's bring the dakka back!

Ranged Weapon Option for the Venerable Dreadnought

Wut?

Give the Venerable Dreadnought a twin-linked lascannon for 100/50. Loses the Charge and Emperor's Fist abilities.

Why?

Helps the Venerable Dreadnought's survivability and utility in T3 against other large scary stuff. Doesn't overlap with the regular Dreadnought's weapons.

Mark of Nurgle for the Chaos Dreadnought

Wut?

Adds the Mark of Nurgle for the Chaos Dreadnought for 100/40. Increases HP by 400 (up to 1400), reduces speed by 1, adds a DoT effect to the autocannon *the DoT affects vehicles*.

Why?

Because dammit!

Gotta say that T3 armor for PC would be pretty badass.

Indrid wrote:Integration of Shuma's Plague Lord

Wut?

• Adds a T3 armour upgrade for the Plague Champion, turning him into a Plague Lord (like Typhus, Herald of Nurgle.)
• Costs 300/150, walks through cover/cannot be suppressed. Resets level and grants 2000 HP with beastly regeneration (like Plague Marines).
• Passive slow effect (like Plague Marines). Same walking speed as Chaos Lord/Brother Captain.
• Armed with a two-handed Scythe (see pics). 75 DPS power melee, 10 power melee splash, 5 piercing damage per second for 2 seconds DoT. No ranged weapon.
• Can purchase Icon of Nurgle for 125/25, same as the PC's.
• Loses the ability to repair and build turrets.

Why?

Yeah.... this doesn't really have a purely balance consideration I suppose. It's not filling any hole. It is just badass, has a very high quality model (if it works), fits the fluff, gives a different playstyle for the PC, and isn't OP.

It would be awesome.

But i suggest it to start as the FC: with a ranged and a melee weapon.

Not sure who had done it or which mod belongs to , but i have in my archives a Nurgle Daemon Plague sword and a Nurgle Storm Bolter (2 versions, one similar to the CL Storm Bolter but with more green and brown colours and the other with a round clip and large cannon.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/882 ... 992E0BFE0/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/882 ... 0AB305874/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/882 ... 34815BDA1/

With a green glow effect similar to the retail Daemon Sword or maybe some green blood dripping the sword model could be simply awesome.

Maybe it could start with the Daemon Plague Sword and a Plague Storm Bolter, which does 50 heavy_heavy melee and 30 piercing_dps with a 2 dps with 5 seconds duration DOT. Reduce the cost to 250 - 125. Give the option to buy the Icon of Nurgle with that cost and the Scythe for 100 - 25. Insted to do that DOT, the Scythe could reduce the speed by 0.1 and the damage done by 2% for 10 seconds of the affected squad. Stacks 5 times.

300 - 150 its very very huge, even for a awesome upgrade.

Indrid wrote:Ranged Weapon Option for the Venerable Dreadnought

Wut?

Give the Venerable Dreadnought a twin-linked lascannon for 100/50. Loses the Charge and Emperor's Fist abilities.

Why?

Helps the Venerable Dreadnought's survivability and utility in T3 against other large scary stuff. Doesn't overlap with the regular Dreadnought's weapons.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but... are you saying you want a Lass cannon Predator without rear armour, with good melee and 1750 HP?

Indrid wrote:Mark of Nurgle for the Chaos Dreadnought

Wut?

Adds the Mark of Nurgle for the Chaos Dreadnought for 100/40. Increases HP by 400 (up to 1400), reduces speed by 1, adds a DoT effect to the autocannon *the DoT affects vehicles*.

Why?

Because dammit!

Imagine the brutal damage that thing could do. Have in mind that the autocannon do splash damage, so all the affected models receive the DOT. Now adds that thing could stacks.

For example: 5 shots (not the exact number) x 5 (imagine 1 dps for 5 seconds) x 4 models = 100 damage against the squad only for the DOT damage. Now adds the damage of the autocannon.

I would prefer an area damage as the MoN Chaos Predator.

Lost Son of Nikhel wrote:It would be awesome.

But i suggest it to start as the FC: with a ranged and a melee weapon.

Not sure who had done it or which mod belongs to , but i have in my archives a Nurgle Daemon Plague sword and a Nurgle Storm Bolter (2 versions, one similar to the CL Storm Bolter but with more green and brown colours and the other with a round clip and large cannon.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/882 ... 992E0BFE0/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/882 ... 0AB305874/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/882 ... 34815BDA1/

The drum-magazine bolter looks good, but the sword looks poor imo. The textures are low-res. 300/150 because of the passive slow, big HP regen, power melee splash and option of IoN would be a very nasty combo. FC would need to pay 70/70 for his LC in comparison, and couldn't synergise that with the passive slow or IoN. Though would have a teleport so...

I just didn't want it to seem crazy OP and cheap compared to the Chaos Lord with full wargear.

Lost Son of Nikhel wrote:Correct me if i'm wrong, but... are you saying you want a Lass cannon Predator without rear armour, with good melee and 1750 HP?

Yes, but it's 700(750?)/100/300(?) with the lascannon, and loses fist and charge. You have to make red usage very worthwhile for Space Marine commanders imo, or they'll just go for Termies. The lascannon could also have shorter range than the Pred, like the GK Dread's plasma has shorter range than the setup-team.

Lost Son of Nikhel wrote:Imagine the brutal damage that thing could do. Have in mind that the autocannon do splash damage, so all the affected models receive the DOT. Now adds that thing could stacks.

For example: 5 shots (not the exact number) x 5 (imagine 1 dps for 5 seconds) x 4 models = 100 damage against the squad only for the DOT damage. Now adds the damage of the autocannon.

I would prefer an area damage as the MoN Chaos Predator.

Well I should have said that it would be a very slight DoT, just like a Plague Marine hitting every model, which isn't all that much (perhaps make it so the DoT can't stack on a model). Especially for a 100/40 upgrade on a now quite slow walker.

Another option would be to reduce the HP bonus, and give the Nurgle Dread some natural HP regen. Or give it some kind of disabling self-heal, like Wraithbone.

Hmmm. Just some ideas for the dread:
-A passive ability, that debuffs enemies nearby or a heal aura.
-Self heal sounds pretty cool or an ability that buffs dmg resistance for a duration.
-Or perhaps the dread could gain some benefits from worship?
-What about just a larger AoE for the autocannon or increased dps with a different dmg type?
-Giant bile spewer in place of the autocannon? Like the flamer in GK dread.

the only worship that doesn't affect dread is the plague one. unless you stacked something else on there it would be a gimmick for one hero. if you want to do that then just restrict it to that hero. giving buffs to a dread under sorc or CL worship would be stupid given how good they both are, CL in particular.

Oh yeah. I meant that it would gain benefits only from Nurgay worship.

Tier 1 Striking Scorpion call in for all eldar commanders similar to the inquisitor's stormtrooper global. 400/40/50ish, 4 or 5 man squad with ~~ 1k hp and infiltrate. melee damage, decent shortranged damage, infantry armour and melee damage. exarch in t2, can upgrade with a two handed chain sword, doing power melee with a flat chance to do a 360 degree special or can be upgraded with a power claw doing heavy melee damage. speed 5 or 5.5. can move over terrain with an exarch. maybe no melee charge.

So basically they would be something like catachans (good short range dps and melee)? Only in place of the utility abilities they would have infiltration and better mobility?.

thinking about it last night i think it would be better if they had speed 5.5 but no melee charge and infantry armour. the idea would be that they would be countered by kiting but that the enemy had to kite early because they're slightly faster than most infantry and if they got into mandiblaster range they could pick off models. 70 melee skill but, similar to heretics, no specials, except on the large sword with a flat percentage.

i was thinking more like assualt marines. decent melee damage but more designed to tie up ranged squads and tank damage than deal it. infiltrate would let them get in and move around, as well as making them decent solo capping units, but it's not as strong as a jump. right now eldar has 2 melee squads, both of which really fill a glass cannon role. this would give another option and i really want to see scorpions.

Indrid, you're a fan of papa Nurgle (IIRC) so what you think about this?

Mark of Nurgle to Chaos Space Marines
Cost: 100 req 25 energy
This Mark gives the power of the God of Decay to Chaos Space Marines. The squad gains +20% health, + 1.5 HP regeneration and now their bolters infect the infantry with a DOT. They have too twice courage regeneration amount than other squads. The Aspiring Champion receive the Nurgle Blessing: when he dies, explode dealing 50 explosive damage and weapon_knockback in a 5 radius and healing the rest of squad 75 HP. 17 piercing_damage dps + DOT (Each hit causes 1 points of piercing damage each second for 5 seconds), 13 melee_damage dps.

Model: a mix of a Chaos Space Marine and a Plague Marine. The normal CSM could have the Impure Helmet model from Shuma and the AC CSM one of the Helmets of the Shuma's PC from ELITE's preview versions. I think i will try it myself.

The most import question: Why? Why add a new specialized ranged squad, when we have MoT CSM already, effective against all infantry?

Well, indeed Chaos have a lot of tools to counter infantry (im not talking about HI or SHI, but infantry) at range. But except the MoT CSM all the sources comes from AOE damage, and half of they are stationary. Chaos don't have a real mobile ranged squad specialized on infantry.

Yeah, MoT CSM are good against infantry thanks for his damage type. But their primary role IMHO is do serious damage to HI and SHI, not infantry. Maybe it's me, but i see a waste seeing the MoT CSM fighting against GM, Termagaunts...

The MoN CSM could be a little niche (not very effective against HI or SHI armies, like SM or GK) but really effective in their role, which is obliterate infantry thanks to their DOT. The HP increase and regeneration comes both to help too, and it's in addition very fluffly

Their weakness? HI and SHI objectives, jump troops and vehicles. They do almost 0 damage to vehicles, and with their melee damage decreased to 13 from 22 they do meh damage in CC. Their only card against melee troops is lose their AC for the weapon_knockback and heal, but after that better press retreat if they don't have any additional support.

MoN CSM aren't Plague Marines. They don't do any damage to vehicles, they have half-hp regeneration (MoN CSM have 2.0, Plague Marines have 3.5), they can't shoot under suppress but they regenerate morale twice faster than other troops, they don't snare in a radius or do damage when explode (except the AC)

What did you think, people?

EDIT: To avoid have two squad (MoT CSM and MoN CSM) with similar damage against infantry, we could reduce the MoT damage against infantry to 90% from 100% and increse their damage against HI to 133% form 125%.

Well it sounds nice and fluffy but further increasing MoT vs HI to help MoN niche is not gonna go down well I think. Also, with Plague Marines around I'd rather see Mark of Slaanesh CSM get a run out.

As for Nurgle-love I'd rather Plague Marines get buffed (and price increased to 500/50 or even 550/50) to do more DoT to inf and do DoT in melee and DoT to vehicles OR be able to purchase blight grenades to use. Or a mixture of all that. Beef them up into the kind of infantry unit you'd usually only have one of, like Purifiers are for GK and Ogryns for IG.

With Bloodletters not having heavy melee any more though I don't think we'll see a PM price increase any time soon or them changed in any way.

And yes, I am Nurgle-biased...

Direct-anti infantry units are Plague Marines purely due based on outlasting // sustainability. They're going to do great against most units, assuming you've got the proper supportive tool assets at your disposal, and by that definition, I mean genuine supportive units in the viccinity, or by keeping them in heavy cover, to really let the health regeneration trait of theirs to really shine.

Standard-issue EW + AC CSMS does good againts regular-issued infantry as well. They're also more potent melee fighters then your MoT CSMs, they're more ... well, flexibile in their utility, but lacks specilization. If you want to keep with a good anti-infantry ranged-oriented unit squad, the EW + AC CSMs fare quite well in this regard. It continously seems to slip peoples mind that the AC CSMs bolter pistol was buffed to quite a respectable amount of damage. Coupled with the fact that EW grants the AC the added +20% damage enhancements, he makes the squad far more potent against anti-dedicated infantry, compared to your regulary normal MoT AC CSM squad. (Again, basing on general-flexibility of the squad, rather than specilization)

With that in mind, you're also saving 125/30 resources by skipping the MoT-specilization, this is a quite a big and substantial bonus, that I'd rather encourage-fast teching as Chaos, as you're more then very likely to get left-behind in a tech-race if you dedicated yourself far to much into Mark Specilizations with several CSMs squads.

Indrid wrote:Well it sounds nice and fluffy but further increasing MoT vs HI to help MoN niche is not gonna go down well I think. Also, with Plague Marines around I'd rather see Mark of Slaanesh CSM get a run out.

Not sure if you have read my edit...

The MoT damage increase vs HI/damage decrease vs infantry is for avoid having two too similar squads. And as i remember, it's not a bad build have one MoT CSM and one MoK CSM. With some melee (aka Bloodletters/Commander) to protect they from assault squads/powerful melee units, why not a MoN CSM and a MoT CSM?

I would like a Mark of Slaneesh CSM but... i can't thinking about his role/stadistics/weapons. :/

Indrid wrote:As for Nurgle-love I'd rather Plague Marines get buffed (and price increased to 500/50 or even 550/50) to do more DoT to inf and do DoT in melee and DoT to vehicles OR be able to purchase blight grenades to use. Or a mixture of all that. Beef them up into the kind of infantry unit you'd usually only have one of, like Purifiers are for GK and Ogryns for IG.

With Bloodletters not having heavy melee any more though I don't think we'll see a PM price increase any time soon or them changed in any way.

And yes, I am Nurgle-biased...

In fact, i suggested buff Plague Marines with a MoN which increases their DOT damage and melee damage as well to return a nerfed version of the ol' explode heal to the own Plague Marines, and not only the rest of the nearly squad.

The problem to buff too much the Plague Marines they could become an no brainer anti-all squad: rocket launcher vs vehicles, the bolter/dot damage vs infantry and also de DOT damage if is too high could damage too much HI, with the addition that the rocket launcher could hit SHI, which usually have medium or huge size owners.

Caeltos wrote:Direct-anti infantry units are Plague Marines purely due based on outlasting // sustainability. They're going to do great against most units, assuming you've got the proper supportive tool assets at your disposal, and by that definition, I mean genuine supportive units in the viccinity, or by keeping them in heavy cover, to really let the health regeneration trait of theirs to really shine.

Maybe i'm underestimating the PM damage, but i don't find they as a good anti-infantry damage, and more when his primary role is counter vehicles, trusting in their hp regen and high health to tank the enemy's vehicle damage.

Caeltos wrote:Standard-issue EW + AC CSMS does good againts regular-issued infantry as well. They're also more potent melee fighters then your MoT CSMs, they're more ... well, flexibile in their utility, but lacks specilization. If you want to keep with a good anti-infantry ranged-oriented unit squad, the EW + AC CSMs fare quite well in this regard. It continously seems to slip peoples mind that the AC CSMs bolter pistol was buffed to quite a respectable amount of damage. Coupled with the fact that EW grants the AC the added +20% damage enhancements, he makes the squad far more potent against anti-dedicated infantry, compared to your regulary normal MoT AC CSM squad. (Again, basing on general-flexibility of the squad, rather than specilization)

His general-flexibility is at the same time, their best and the worst feature. In a game where the squads are usually or good in melee or good in ranged a squad with not bad melee and not bad ranged damage is in no man's land.

Don't misunderstand me: i would like to see more EW AC CSM play. But the problem is they come in T2, where plasma/ power melee damage and vehicles comes to play.

EW AC CSM have (13.42 x 3 + 11.47) x 1.2 = 62.076 piercing_damage and (22 x 3 + 34.62) x 1.2 = 120.744 dps melee_damage.

In range stance they do a bit more damage than a Sargent Tac squad... with the exception that EW AC CSM don't have ATSKNF or Kraken Bolts... and have less health... and are more expensive than a Sargent Tac squad. (525/25 Tac against 540/40 CSM)

Without comparing EW AC CSM with Tac Sarg, they are going to lose any ranged fire, even in cover. With half T2 squads obtaining plasma damage, they are going to receive more damage than they could do. As i see, they are only going to win against single cheaper and/or no plasma damage squads: Termagaunts with Toxin Sacs, GU with/without Warlock, Scouts, Shootas...

In melee stance they could do great damage, but there are little problems: no charge, 60 melee skill, only the AC do special attacks, 5 speed without sprint ability, no ability to change a battle...

Against dedicated melee troops they could present a fair battle, but they are going to lose, as it should be. Not mention if the dedicated melee squad have power_melee damage. The EW AC CSM could lose even against vanilla jump troops, if the jump troops do enough special attacks.

The other possible option is engage in melee with enemy ranged squads and destroy they with their good melee damage. But again, their no charge/no sprint/no ability/almost no special attacks make they not very good melee fighters. Not mention that without melee carge they could easily eat a well placed spike grenade.

Caeltos wrote:With that in mind, you're also saving 125/30 resources by skipping the MoT-specilization, this is a quite a big and substantial bonus, that I'd rather encourage-fast teching as Chaos, as you're more then very likely to get left-behind in a tech-race if you dedicated yourself far to much into Mark Specilizations with several CSMs squads.

If people saving the MoT resources is usually for field a AV squad if in T1 they don't buy a Havoc or to pimp up the commander/other squads. Fast Tech to T3 usually have a drawback: you could lose field presence and map control if the enemy goes for a medium/heavy T2. And as we know, Chaos doesn't shine for his map control.

Hello all,

I am fairly new to DOW 2 Elite (just found the mod a few days ago), and I have to say I'm loving the mod so far; especially the new goodies that we get in the new units, abilities, and Grey Knights faction.

Anyway, I was browsing the forums here and I saw Indrid's wishlist post (love your casts BTW, in fact they are what led me to the Elite mod) and I thought I would add a wish/request if that is acceptable.

My wish is for....

Necrons. Pretty big order I know, and I am sure you guys have gotten thousands of similar requests in the past but for me, a Necron faction would be the addition I would like to see the most.

Normally, I view additional factions, added in via mod as OP automatic "I win" buttons; and in fact that is what I thought the Grey Knights were when I first saw them. But after watching some of Indrid's casts, and playing the mod itself, I was impressed; here was a fan created faction, that did not break the game (OP) and was fun and unique to play as.

So using your impressive feat of incorporating the Grey Knights into the game as a foundation, my wish is for a playable Necron faction. Sorry, I don't have any abilities/powers readily available; this post is kinda a spur of the moment; but I am sure (if the mod team set out to add the Necrons) that they could be balanced alongside the existing factions, while still retaining their own unique flare.

Anyway, that's enough out of one Necron fanboy for today lol, I just wanted to see what the mod team thought about such an addition, and even if not, the mod is still the best thing to happen to DOW 2.

I'm sure Caeltos and Lulgrim would love to add more factions, but neither of them are modellers and nobody has made Necron models. Grey Knights were added because someone (Bloodravage) made all their models already, and they could use sound assets etc from Space Marines. Necrons would probably need entirely new animations etc also.

So in short, they need the assets to add that kind of stuff.

True. I guess Necrons would be more of a pie in the sky wish then the things you were discussing. Still, I believe the modder for Destroyer 40K mentioned working on Necron models, obviously alot of work would have to going into bringing them over, animating, and then balancing them, but one must have hope in the grim dark future.

Shuma made a great model for a Slaanesh commander. No new animations needed (he can use normal sergeant model) and gives chaos a subcommander as something maybe a bit more allround rather than the super specialising that tends to happen in t2?

DJ Raffa wrote:Shuma made a great model for a Slaanesh commander. No new animations needed (he can use normal sergeant model) and gives chaos a subcommander as something maybe a bit more allround rather than the super specialising that tends to happen in t2?

Yeah a good idea. Give him something like a 65 power melee sword and a noise pistol with an effect like PC bolter but instead of damage-it would prevent enemies from shooting .--Sorry for my bad english-:P

I would like to see the Slaanesh subcommander as being heavily dependent on energy and combat drugs in order to be effective. It definitely adds a bit of micro to the relatively micro-intensive Chaos gameplay (sarcasm).

Perhaps he could start off with a mediocre power sword and plasma pistol and a combat drugs default ability where he could sacrifice health for increased energy regeneration, movement speed and/or attack speed
1) daemon sword upgrade for slightly better (not much) power melee dps with a toggle on/off ability for good heavy melee at the price of energy cost per swing (like the daemon sword for Chaos Sorcerer in TLS). When he runs out of energy it toggles off.

2) Doom Siren upgrade for a directional knockback strike like the assault marine sergeant ability, though with more range and with a slight reduce ranged damage debuff for all models, including allies, caught in the ability path; also adds to base health

3) Icon of Slaanesh upgrade where he gains energy for damage taken


Of course, if something likes this ever got implemented, it'll be really tricky to balance the states so that the Slaanesh subcommander doesn't drain himself of health too quickly and prevent himself from having any real worth.




On an unrelated note, it'd be nice if the KCSMs could get a sort of bloodlust buff that instead of affecting allied units when attacking, it increases only that particular KCSM squad's damage with every kill temporarily. In addition, an increased charge distance would be great. I'd say it's worth a price hike to MoT cost, perhaps a little more.

Prevent from having any real worth?
What I am reading would be the complete opposite of that.

Well, I imagined the Slaanesh subcommander to start out of the gate pretty squishy for a space marine, maybe 800hp, so when you start using the combat drugs and enemies start to focus fire him, he'd probably go down quickly. Plus, I also intended him to be sort of a melee glass cannon, so that he'd have to burn through his energy to win his battles quickly or else get defeated easily.

Edit: Squishy in comparison to the 1000 hp librarian, that is, and not particularly faster without combat drugs.

700hp squishy melee librarian you mean?

Oops my mistake. Hmm. The librarian hp must have been after upgrades then. Yeah. Maybe giving the Slaanesh commander something around that (700-750) seems more of what I had in mind.

On an unrelated note, it'd be nice if the KCSMs could get a sort of minor bloodlust buff that instead of affecting allied units when attacking, it increases only that particular KCSM squad's damage with every kill temporarily. In addition, an increased charge distance would be great. I'd say it's worth a price hike to MoT cost, perhaps a little more.


Copied from earlier post because it was edited in after the post page shifted, and I wanted this to get seen too

KCSM are good enough as they are already.

They still loose to banshes while costing a lot more and not having ammazing buffs and zero synergy with heroes ( cuz chaos has no buffs on heroes ) so a slight price reduction seems okay .

Everything loses to banshees while costing more.
Please stop comparing them like that.
Especially vs Elderp.

Ranged terminators lose to upgraded sluggas with a painboy support ...

sluggas and banshees are very similar. very similar. in a lot of ways.

If KCSM were comparable to Banshees KCSM would tear ASM to shreds, and any other heavy infantry along with it. You have to bear in mind that KCSM have 2 fewer models than Banshees, and although each KCSM model does more power melee damage than each shee (minus of course the exarch), those 2 models really make a difference. Firstly, there's far more outgoing dps. Secondly, since shees have more models attacking, and more attacks per second, shees naturally will proc more special attacks than KCSM, assuming equal levels. Thirdly, any special attack is likely to knock down most of the KCSM squad, whereas it's much harder to keep a whole banshee squad on its back with special melee attacks. To make KCSM competitive against Banshees I reckon you would have to at least add 25% dps to KCSM.