ESL - Elite Stats & Leagues web extension [beta]

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Lulgrim
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ESL - Elite Stats & Leagues web extension [beta]

Postby Lulgrim » Mon 23 Nov, 2015 12:01 am

New: OK, most of the original info is obsolete, so I will rewrite this:

We are activating a new external leaderboard & statistics system – let’s call it an ‘extension’ to the game – to replace and surpass the (now fucked-up) in-game stats. It started as the Elite Solo League (1v1), but it looks like we’ll extend it to team games and tournaments as well, so that’s a bit of a working title now.

This new system now employs a background app, let's call it the Elite Reporter, written by our resident tech-priest, to send results and replay files to our server automatically. So instead of the upload page you just launch the app and play Elite normally.

Main points:
  • Everything is handled automatically
  • We are also recording team games for a probable 2v2 ladder and generic 3v3/global stats
  • Registering not required (but linking your forum profile is available)
  • Replays uploaded automatically and available for download
  • Still can’t get all the lul stats of the old ladder
  • Still planning to add features on the fly, e.g. tournament stats on player profile
At this point I will call it beta, meaning it basically works and any legit results can stay, but there will probably be occasional bugs and we will make tweaks and recalculations so ratings may change around a bit. The update cycles will also be triggered manually until we observe it for a while.

In any case, I am now hoping for wide-as-possible use of the Elite Reporter app, even for those not interested in actual ranking, so we can get delicious data and statistics and iron out the bugs. The app can be downloaded on the Elite download page and the ESL registration page.

Link: http://www.dawnofwar.info/esl

So what is ranked?
With the auto-reports, this is simple now.
  • Automatch games
  • Custom games where each player chats "Ranked" (and only that word! we are not going to program an AI to interpret the semantics of whether it was agreed or not)
Note that although 1v1 updates won’t be immediate yet and a 2v2 ladder is not up, results are saved forever and any legit ones can be included in the ladder anytime we want.
Atlas

Re: Elite Solo Ladder [test phase]

Postby Atlas » Mon 23 Nov, 2015 2:14 am

Just as a clarification on Lulgrim's points for now and some of my own notes on trying it out; the state of the ladder I messed around with required you to determine the winner of the match by hitting one of the fill in dots right underneath the "Who is the winner?" question once the uploader pulls out its data.

The ladder accepted 2v2s and 3v3s as well for me, so for pure testing purposes you can use those reps. Once the ladder is full go though, from what I understand it can be filtered. Once the data is pulled, make sure to hit "submit" to send the rep into the system.

Make sure to register yourself in the ladder list first, and then it should count for your record. When I tried it, forgetting to register the players still allowed you to accept the rep but didn't register win/loss for the non-registered players.

Also, the ladder is determined solely by wins and losses from my last check-in. This means that it doesn't matter what hero you were using.
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Re: Elite Solo Ladder [test phase]

Postby Lulgrim » Mon 23 Nov, 2015 5:32 am

Oops, Haado Gei sleep deprivation FOOOOOOOOOO… Forgot the actual page: http://www.dawnofwar.info/esl.

Atlas wrote:The ladder accepted 2v2s and 3v3s as well for me, so for pure testing purposes you can use those reps.

OK I better add a check for that… the scripts don’t really account for >2 players.

Atlas wrote:Make sure to register yourself in the ladder list first, and then it should count for your record. When I tried it, forgetting to register the players still allowed you to accept the rep but didn't register win/loss for the non-registered players.

Both players need to be in the system or it will refuse the replay.

Atlas wrote:Also, the ladder is determined solely by wins and losses from my last check-in. This means that it doesn't matter what hero you were using.

Eh? It never did in the old one either.
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Re: Elite Solo Ladder [test phase]

Postby Lulgrim » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 6:33 am

Some updates on the project.

The player page has been updated a bunch, giving most of the main stats from our old ladder: http://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/index.php?page=players&plr=10184592. It needs a match list and other stuff (I will make searching for games with each race/hero clickable and some more stats) but it's shaping up.

The overall match list has been updated, with download & YouTube links etc. The individual match view is now better and includes embedded YouTube when available: http://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/index.php?page=matches&m=1231r3ref4f4f4w4f24f2ef22232323r.

On the Tech-Adept side of things, reporting in-game results to our server has become reality, so we can probably scrap the submit form. You just play your games as usual and come witness the aftermath on dawnofwar.info.
Atlas

Re: Elite Solo Ladder [test phase]

Postby Atlas » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 1:22 pm

One small step for scrubs, one giant step for mankind!

Unbelievably awesome.
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Re: Elite Solo Ladder [test phase]

Postby Cyris » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 3:09 pm

Lulgrim wrote:On the Tech-Adept side of things, reporting in-game results to our server has become reality, so we can probably scrap the submit form. You just play your games as usual and come witness the aftermath on dawnofwar.info.


Can you elaborate on this point a little? Is the implication that if I and my victim are both registered here (http://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/?page=register) then any match we play will automatically be counted?
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Re: Elite Solo Ladder [test phase]

Postby Myrdal » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 5:52 pm

Cyris wrote:
Lulgrim wrote:On the Tech-Adept side of things, reporting in-game results to our server has become reality, so we can probably scrap the submit form. You just play your games as usual and come witness the aftermath on dawnofwar.info.


Can you elaborate on this point a little? Is the implication that if I and my victim are both registered here (http://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/?page=register) then any match we play will automatically be counted?

If the game was started via matchmaking then yes that game will automatically count. For custom games we aren't sure yet but most likely we'll have to include these as the matchmaking system is broken and nobody uses it atm. Having all custom 1v1s count isn't ideal though. What we might do is store the result but only update the ladder for matches we can determine are ranked, eg players state "ranked" in the chat like we've done before.

Also for the games to be reported a tiny program will need to be running alongside elite, you can choose to close/remove it if you don't want games reported.

I and my victim

Still rocking GK are we?
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Re: Elite Solo Ladder [test phase]

Postby Lulgrim » Sun 06 Dec, 2015 3:06 pm

hakon wrote:What we might do is store the result but only update the ladder for matches we can determine are ranked, eg players state "ranked" in the chat like we've done before.

To clarify, the chat would be checked automatically as well, so no delay because of that.

I made some rudimentary stats for the mockup data: http://dawnofwar.info/esl/index.php?page=stats. We might offer generic stats for other game modes as well when the result reporter app is distributed.
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Re: Elite Solo Ladder [test phase]

Postby Dark Riku » Mon 07 Dec, 2015 2:11 pm

Looking very good!
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Re: Elite Solo Ladder [test phase]

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Thu 10 Dec, 2015 3:03 am

Does it only show up to 10 players and that is it? I am registered but my name is not showing. I had 2 games so far, which are showing, but my rating is not visible in the players list.
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Re: Elite Solo Ladder [test phase]

Postby Lulgrim » Sun 13 Dec, 2015 11:04 pm

Yes it only shows the first 10 players, didn’t bother to fix it since it works as a preview for now. EDIT: Increased to 50, let me know if it starts bugging again.
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Re: Elite ladder & stats extension [beta]

Postby Lulgrim » Fri 25 Dec, 2015 10:55 pm

Update: The original concept is garbage and we are doing the automatic external ladder & stats site, driven by a background app that sends results and other stats to our server. It will now go beta and we would appreciate widespread use of the reporter app to gather as much data as possible.

I have also (hopefully) improved the 1v1 stat pages further, have a look if you didn’t recently.

See the starting post for details and links.
Atlas

Re: Elite ladder & stats extension [beta]

Postby Atlas » Sat 26 Dec, 2015 2:38 am

Excellent work. I'll make sure I start using this all the time!
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Re: Elite ladder & stats extension [beta]

Postby Swift » Sat 26 Dec, 2015 10:59 am

Aww, I've been on holiday and missed absolutely everything! I'd better get my head round it when I come back.
The internal battery has run dry, the game can now be played. However, clock based events will no longer occur.
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Re: Elite ladder & stats extension [beta]

Postby Tex » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 2:37 am

This.... Is.... Awesome

I don't know how you guys do this stuff, but color me fucking impressed.

Now... to get riku and noisy to stop dodging me :P hahah jk
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Re: Elite ladder & stats extension [beta]

Postby Dark Riku » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 11:40 am

Timezones and RL obligations are a bitch :(
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Re: Elite ladder & stats extension [beta]

Postby Tex » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 12:04 pm

Is this compatible with windows 7? I'm going to try and start running it today or tomorrow.
Atlas

Re: Elite ladder & stats extension [beta]

Postby Atlas » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 3:25 pm

Tex wrote:Is this compatible with windows 7? I'm going to try and start running it today or tomorrow.


I gave it a try and it seemed to work for me!

EDIT: It didn't record because it was a team game, but the software definitely picked it up.
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Re: Elite ladder & stats extension [beta]

Postby Dark Riku » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 10:40 pm

Working fine for me on win7.
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Re: Elite ladder & stats extension [beta]

Postby Lulgrim » Tue 29 Dec, 2015 2:11 am

Seeing a bunch of results across 1v1/2v2/3v3 logs so something's working. Doesn't seem to have games that qualify for the 1v1 ladder, but I will work out general stats and maybe use unrated games temporarily for displaying the ladder.
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Re: Elite ladder & stats extension [beta]

Postby Dark Riku » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 12:57 am

Might it not be better to include every 1v1 game?
And exclude games when people say "non-ranked", "practise" or w/e in the first minute?
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Re: Elite ladder & stats extension [beta]

Postby Lulgrim » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 6:11 am

Including all is possible, but it does mean people trying a new faction or some lul build and maybe not really trying to win will get skill rated by their non-serious games. So we get more data points but kind of defeat the actual purpose of all those maths to calculate a skill estimate.

Excluding practice games like that is technically simple, but in that case all players might not even know they are being rated (i.e. one side or even an observer could be running the Reporter and cause the game to be logged as rated).
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Re: ESL - Elite Stats & Leagues web extension [beta]

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 12:01 pm

I think this would also open the door to people trying to manipulate their true skill rating by playing vs low-level players, who do not want to be in the ladder yet, or to players pushing their rating by playing vs the AI.

I am not sure if this is feasible or even wanted but is it possible to have a skill rating per race? This would actually truly reflect a players skill with the respective race. Somewhat like the (broken) in-game ladder that has a table for each race.
Negative modifiers could be applied to xp gained by winning with GK or Nids :lol:
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Re: ESL - Elite Stats & Leagues web extension [beta]

Postby Crewfinity » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 4:02 pm

So the app can identify auto ranked games, correct? I've been running the app and collecting games through matchmaking, since I don't want to have to remember to say "ranked" in normal games.

Another upside of having this is more incentive for people to be looking for ladder games in matchmaking :D

Seriously awesome work on all of this. I'm consistently impressed with the dedication and prowess of the modding team here, and your work really is appreciated :D
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Re: ESL - Elite Stats & Leagues web extension [beta]

Postby Tranca » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 6:59 pm

Hey, guys! I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but - wasn't there a way to download replays off the 'Log' tab in the Ladder?

I could have sworn I downloaded a few in the past, but now I can't! :(
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Re: ESL - Elite Stats & Leagues web extension [beta]

Postby Lulgrim » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 7:11 pm

Adeptus Noobus wrote:I think this would also open the door to people trying to manipulate their true skill rating by playing vs low-level players, who do not want to be in the ladder yet, or to players pushing their rating by playing vs the AI.

Well, tbh we can filter out AI games and the Glicko formula won't reward you much for beating scrubs (you get pretty much 0 gains), but still, I think it might skew the statistics somewhat.

Adeptus Noobus wrote:I am not sure if this is feasible or even wanted but is it possible to have a skill rating per race? This would actually truly reflect a players skill with the respective race. Somewhat like the (broken) in-game ladder that has a table for each race.

Technically, yes, it's cake. However, this would spread our already thin data over several factions and in most cases give multiple unreliable (high RD) ratings instead of one reasonably believable one.

The in-game ladder only has one Elo rating per player, the race stats are just won/lost counters, which we already have.

Crewfinity wrote:So the app can identify auto ranked games, correct?

Yes.

Tranca wrote:Hey, guys! I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but - wasn't there a way to download replays off the 'Log' tab in the Ladder? I could have sworn I downloaded a few in the past, but now I can't!

The file scripts aren't updated yet for the auto-upload feature (we now have files in different locations) but they are being stored and I'll have the match page pointing to the files sometime soon.
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Re: ESL - Elite Stats & Leagues web extension [beta]

Postby Tranca » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 7:28 pm

Siiick!

Thanks for the quick response!
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Re: ESL - Elite Stats & Leagues web extension [beta]

Postby Tex » Sat 02 Jan, 2016 3:32 pm

Just wanted to post and say that so far I have found 0 bugs with the stats system, and more importantly, I wanted to say thank you for giving us all that little nudge of motivation to keep this awesome game alive. I think more than anything else, having a reliable ranking, stat tracking, and replay storage system is what we have needed for a long time.

CHEERS TO ALL! HAPPY NEW YEAR!
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Re: ESL - Elite Stats & Leagues web extension [beta]

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Sat 02 Jan, 2016 4:07 pm

Tex wrote:Just wanted to post and say that so far I have found 0 bugs with the stats system, and more importantly, I wanted to say thank you for giving us all that little nudge of motivation to keep this awesome game alive. I think more than anything else, having a reliable ranking, stat tracking, and replay storage system is what we have needed for a long time.

CHEERS TO ALL! HAPPY NEW YEAR!

THIS MAN! Qft
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Re: ESL - Elite Stats & Leagues web extension [beta]

Postby Forestradio » Sat 02 Jan, 2016 9:43 pm

this is awesome, ty very much

on a bug-related note, it seems like all GK games are being counted as FC games, since i just played johngrammaticus and he was gk and in the log it shows it as fc...

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