Vindicator, swooping hawks.
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Vindicator, swooping hawks.
I've been wondering about why the vindicator hasn't been used in elite yet, with another mod already using it, same applies to the swooping hawks, I imagine the main reason is probably balance issues, or possibly copyright though i cant see that bothering modders? what's everyone's opinion on having a vindicator in game would be? too OP, too useless? what?
Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
I've played destroyer (most broken mod eva)
And Vindicators there are so fucking OP
and wouldn't fit in Elite
PS: nice name
And Vindicators there are so fucking OP
and wouldn't fit in Elite
PS: nice name
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Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
I have destroyer myself, and codex edition (swooping hawks), but i think they could work the vidicator into ELITE nicely, since it's really short ranged artillery and it's not as if there's a lot of jump troops , I imagine caeltos as being much less biased toward the space marines than the modder for destroyer 40k
EDIT: it was supposed to say"it's not as if there's not a lot of jump troops", sarcasm<, also cheers
EDIT: it was supposed to say"it's not as if there's not a lot of jump troops", sarcasm<, also cheers
Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
I really don't think it could fit, since for disruption u have the whirlie
and low-range would just make it too easy to take down
and low-range would just make it too easy to take down
Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
Neither serve a legitimate balance function. Both would create more problems than they solve. Don't see any need for them (unless you have brand new authentic-looking models/weapons/animations etc on your comp for these units in which case I'm sure Lulgrim would love to work with you)
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Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
Would require a lot of pretection from other units, ill give you that, but it isn't that the way it's meant to be, even in the lore? On the subject of swooping hawks, it was retarded for me to bring them up, they're preetty much warp spiders with wings haha
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Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
I don't really see why the current version of the vindicator needs any new animations or models, as far as i remember it was pretty much dow2 caliber.
Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
nicecupofstfu wrote:I don't really see why the current version of the vindicator needs any new animations or models, as far as i remember it was pretty much dow2 caliber.
Maybe because the model belongs to another mod? And yes, if you wanna create a mod you just don't steal the work from other modders.
Also why would we need a vindicator in the first place, as a long range arty for SM we have the whirlwind for the disruption and we also have the pdev if you want a requisition only artillery unit.
Hence I don't see the point of adding the vindicator.
"A fortress is built with blood and toil. Only by blood and toil may it be taken." Leman Russ
Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
Well for tabletop players there is always a reason :p
- Ace of Swords
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Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
whirlwind
i'd rather see the vindicator tbh, atleast it has 1 CANNON,1 SHOT and that might hit it's target.
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Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
I like this guy ^, he want's a vindicator to. As far as stealing other modders work goes, werent most of the units and retextures made with no specific mod in mind, for instance the LotD pack that's coming into elite next patch, which I assume is an updated version of hadrun's or maybe the same pack, though hadrun worked on elite anyway didn't he? I assumed the vindicator was made along the same lines, although i have not looked into it. Lot's of assumptions ^, still on the subject of artillery, the whirlwind is more like the manticore, it's not exactly a vindicator, their ranges are entirely different.
- Nuclear Arbitor
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Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
having multiple units that fulfill the same role isn't an issue, especially when there are differences that make them better than each other in different circumstances. i would personally love to have swooping hawks but i'm not sure there is room for them.
Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
I'm not that big of a tabletop/lore guy but swooping hawks are flying elderp unit ?
Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
Yeah, Swooping Hawks are basically Avengers on wings. Maybe they could be like Tier 1 jump units that in T2 they could upgrade to Skyleap, like the Autarch, and then be called down with a single entry grenade or something for some req/red? Also, for the Vindicator, do you think it could be added as a T2/T3 short-ranged artillery for Chaos, since they lack that?
Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
Yes, I assume those that want them in want them in as a jump unit. In the lore they have lighter armour than other Eldar infantry which could help balance them and keep them fluffy.
- Commissar Yarrick
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Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
Swooping hawks Wargear:
The ritual weapons of the Swooping Hawks are the Lasblaster and Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack, two weapons especially suited to their role as harassers operating ahead of the main Eldar host. The grenade pack in particular can carry a wide variety of grenades, from Krak and Frag to Plasma and Haywire Grenades. Flying over their enemies' heads, the Swooping Hawks rain down explosive death before closing in to press the assault or falling back to cover to use their Lasblasters
Soruce: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Swooping_Hawk#Wargear
The ritual weapons of the Swooping Hawks are the Lasblaster and Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack, two weapons especially suited to their role as harassers operating ahead of the main Eldar host. The grenade pack in particular can carry a wide variety of grenades, from Krak and Frag to Plasma and Haywire Grenades. Flying over their enemies' heads, the Swooping Hawks rain down explosive death before closing in to press the assault or falling back to cover to use their Lasblasters
Soruce: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Swooping_Hawk#Wargear
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Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
The upgrade for swooping hawks would be another exarch, doing slightly higher damage than the average swooping hawk and allowing access to the haywire grenades/skyleap, then you could probably have a sunrifle or power weapon upgrade, this is just going on information from the wiki.
Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
Why do eldar need them? There is no point adding random units for no reason, it just upsets balance. Eldar don't need a jump unit in t1 otherwise how do you counter hawks+rangers+shees, melee spam?
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
Well since mobility is already a problem against eldar in 1v1 I personally dislike the idea of them having one more highly mobile unit that excels in harassment.
#noobcodex
- Nuclear Arbitor
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Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
swooping hawks would need to be t3; scorpions should be t1.
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Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
Swooping hawks are unecessary, scorpions on the other hand are a nice idea, a melee unit that doesn't do power melee (with the exarch having the scorpion power fist, don't remember its name) being heavier than other eldar units, specialized on hunting high model enemy infantry would fit a role that is missing among the eldar ranks.
In my head it would be like this: heavy melee(in terms of protection) unit that does standard melee damage and a dot (the exarch alone) with a short melee charge compared to other melee units, invisible while not moving, the aspect would add splash damage, this would be offset by the fact that they deal little direct damage, making them more useful against high model units.
The role they would fill? Primarily a melee unit useful against opponents that make little use of heavy infantry, don't you think it's pretty lame that every eldar goes 2x or 3x GUs against IG for example?
Still, I don't think there are any models avaiable so...yeah.
In my head it would be like this: heavy melee(in terms of protection) unit that does standard melee damage and a dot (the exarch alone) with a short melee charge compared to other melee units, invisible while not moving, the aspect would add splash damage, this would be offset by the fact that they deal little direct damage, making them more useful against high model units.
The role they would fill? Primarily a melee unit useful against opponents that make little use of heavy infantry, don't you think it's pretty lame that every eldar goes 2x or 3x GUs against IG for example?
Still, I don't think there are any models avaiable so...yeah.
- Nuclear Arbitor
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Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
this is what i came up with. t1 callin in the last unused eldar slot, hence the red.
ties up ranged units, counters setup teams when there isn't detectors around, no melee charge but counters kiting by having unusually high, accurate fotm.
mostly just food for thought.
Code: Select all
5 Striking Scorpions (400/40/50)
160hp per model
chainsword (20dps melee_pvp) & shuriken pistol/mandiblasters (5dps piercing_pvp, 100% fotm)
heavy_infantry
no speicals
70 melee skill
no melee charge
infiltrate
xp 100
red 8
speed 5.5
courage 100
sight 40
size small
Exarch (85/20/0)
200hp
two chainswords (40dps melee_pvp) mandiblasters (3dps Piercing_pvp, 100% fotm)
heavy_infantry
no specials
70 melee skill
Aspect of the Scorpion (100/20/0 T2)
move through cover
scorpion's claw (35dps heavy_melee_pvp, 7dps piercing_pvp, 100% fotm)
Executioner (75/10/0 T2)
executioner (43dps heavy_melee_pvp, 35% 180 degree knockback)
ties up ranged units, counters setup teams when there isn't detectors around, no melee charge but counters kiting by having unusually high, accurate fotm.
mostly just food for thought.
- Commissar Yarrick
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Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
Nuclear Arbitor wrote:swooping hawks would need to be t3; scorpions should be t1.
I like the idea.
Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
dance commander wrote:Swooping hawks are unecessary, scorpions on the other hand are a nice idea, a melee unit that doesn't do power melee (with the exarch having the scorpion power fist, don't remember its name) being heavier than other eldar units, specialized on hunting high model enemy infantry would fit a role that is missing among the eldar ranks.
In my head it would be like this: heavy melee(in terms of protection) unit that does standard melee damage and a dot (the exarch alone) with a short melee charge compared to other melee units, invisible while not moving, the aspect would add splash damage, this would be offset by the fact that they deal little direct damage, making them more useful against high model units.
The role they would fill? Primarily a melee unit useful against opponents that make little use of heavy infantry, don't you think it's pretty lame that every eldar goes 2x or 3x GUs against IG for example?
Still, I don't think there are any models available so...yeah.
And under the same logic chaos need daemonettes for t1 power melee, marines need power sword melee tacs in t1, ya know because devastators aren't purchased in every MU, gotta make every build viable eh? You're free to get banshees if you want vs IG, just like you're free to go triple sluggas against tyranids... It's a strategy game, people use the optimal builds. The lack of versatility is just a fundamental flaw of the game and the way its economy works.
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
Nothing on this thread is any more than a fanboy wish.
I categorically disagree with everything here.
I categorically disagree with everything here.
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Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
That Torpid Gamer wrote:
And under the same logic chaos need daemonettes for t1 power melee, marines need power sword melee tacs in t1, ya know because devastators aren't purchased in every MU, gotta make every build viable eh? You're free to get banshees if you want vs IG, just like you're free to go triple sluggas against tyranids... It's a strategy game, people use the optimal builds. The lack of versatility is just a fundamental flaw of the game and the way its economy works.
I never said eldar "need" scorpions, I said it would be a nice idea, it's not a priority I only explained how I would do the whole thing.
Also what does that whole daemonettes and marines with power sword thing have to do with anything? What I'm "free" to do does not have anything to do with what would fit the current roster of an army.
DJ Raffa wrote:Nothing on this thread is any more than a fanboy wish.
I categorically disagree with everything here.
That's nice.
Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
dance commander wrote:
I never said eldar "need" scorpions, I said it would be a nice idea, it's not a priority I only explained how I would do the whole thing.
Also what does that whole daemonettes and marines with power sword thing have to do with anything? What I'm "free" to do does not have anything to do with what would fit the current roster of an army.
So why do it then when it will only hinder the balance of the game???
We cannot just add random fluffy units into the game unless there is a proper sound and well evidenced argument to say we should. If it was never your intention to implement such units into the game then I would prefer it if people didn't discuss it. When people see us discussing why implementing fluffy things into the game could work they get all excited and then start trolling the forums with the most ridiculous ideas. It's just very frustrating.
uhhh, can IG get a titan in t3, they need a walker.... <3
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
- Lost Son of Nikhel
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Re: Vindicator, swooping hawks.
DJ Raffa wrote:Nothing on this thread is any more than a fanboy wish.
I categorically disagree with everything here.
Even with Daemonnettes? Will you disagree to control beautiful and sensual Daemonettes, what realize all your perverse desires and will eviscerate all your enemies?
And you are a Chaos player?
"Pater, peccavi in caelum et coram te; iam non sum dignus vocari filius tuus". Dixit autem pater: "manducemus et epulemur, quia hic filius meus mortuus erat et revixit, perierat et inventus est"
There will be no forgiveness for us.
There will be no forgiveness for us.
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