"The community" and DOW3

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MaxPower
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby MaxPower » Tue 06 Jun, 2017 4:53 pm

Adeptus Noobus wrote: Well, having played the game for quite a while and watching a lot of the high-skill streamers (cataclaw, bikerush, etc) I would very much oppose your notion of this game being any fun.


As always, what some people enjoy and think is fun might be alien to other people and vice versa, but yes as I've mentioned it is your good right to not like the game after having played it yourself.

Adeptus Noobus wrote:- shallow base building Funny you mention this because this is actually one of the few strategic elements in this game ^^

I've mentioned it because compared to other games in the genre (Total Annihilation, C&C, Age of Empires to name a few) it is rather shallow. You don't eveb ehave any defense structures for example (talkin turrets here).

Adeptus Noobus wrote:- Elites that are too strong Rather: This game being way to focused on Elites, they should not have that much of an impact tbh

Which is basically what I meant, Elites being too strong, being able to wipe "hordes" of line infantry units with 1 skill shot is a big no go, atleast in my book.

Adeptus Noobus wrote:- a rather lack luster campaign Rather: extended tutorial

Indeed, the gameplay was okayish for a campaign I'd say. Let's be honest, most campaigns for multiplayer centric titles are glorified tutorials (i.e. For Honor). My problem with the campaign was the boring story, that was predictable and boring.

Adeptus Noobus wrote:. the Artstyle (which is subjective, so not really sure if that counts or not) while you are right, this was one of the main offenders for many because it also touches subjects such as immersion, which this game lacks very much

I know that lots and lots of players don't like the artstyle/graphics, but you can atleast make the game look more grimdark with programs like reshade.

Adeptus Noobus wrote:- a modern take on RTS meets Moba (the game mode that is) because they wanted the game to be both things at the same time, they have failed for the game to be good in either category

Agreed.

Adeptus Noobus wrote:- the Elite and Doctrine system with lots and lots of possible configurations to play around with this is actually a great addition in my oppinion

It would be in theory, if certain doctrines wouldn't be so strong compared to other doctrines nobody ever uses.

Adeptus Noobus wrote:- bigger armies (and spamming of certain units :P ) which is stupid that it can/did actually work

I guess being able to spam op units is a trademark of a normal RTS, does that mean that I like that, hell no. The only thing you could do to prevent stuff like that happening would be either hard caps (like you are only allowed to field 3 whirlwinds tops) or soft caps (where the price increases for each new unit of the same type - [example: The 1st whirlwind costs 100 req, the 2nd 150 req, the 3rd 200 red, and so on])

Adeptus Noobus wrote:I really really wanted this game to be something great but at the moment it simply isn't.

You and me both, but I still enjoy it for what it is, a rather shallow rts with the 40k brand, which is still good fun if you have 2 players with you whom you can talk to and which can still evolve via new game modes, armies and maps. Only time will tell and Sega ofc, if they are happy with the sales numbers or not.

Adeptus Noobus wrote:Most of the lobbies are vs AI (fucking really?). When I say most I mean 2 of 5 lobbies. Yes, 5 shabby fucking lobbies for a game that is barely a month old. At any given moment there are supposed to be around 1.5k - 2.5k players online. Where are all these people?

They could be using the quickmatch option, not sure though.

Adeptus Noobus wrote:Relic needs to answer a lot of questions but as always are nowhere to be seen or heard.

That's a trademark of relic, they never were that great when it comes to PR and community work so to speak, which is a shame.

My main problem is the fanbois and haters (i really hate both terms) that claw at eachother for liking or not liking any form of media. It seems to me that both parties only think in extremes, you either think the game is the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ or Satan incarnate, there seems to be no middleground and I really don't like that, its exhausting trying to talk to fanbois and haters alike.

So again, if you like the game play it and don't let other people take the fun you have with the game away from you. If you don't like the game, voice your concerns in a proper way and be done with it, move on and play a game you might enjoy instead. The world doesn't end just because game A is not to your liking and no amount of hate directed to fans or the devs will change that. (This is not directed at you Noobus, but certain other people on this forum)

I hope you know what I'm trying to say.

Ps:
Oddnerd wrote:Apparently DOW3 is shallow and bare bones because they blew most of the budget on internet shills.

The fuck? You trolling? You better be trolling.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Nurland » Tue 06 Jun, 2017 5:09 pm

I am pretty sure he was trolling.
#noobcodex
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Atlas » Tue 06 Jun, 2017 7:12 pm

Wtf happened here, I went to bed and this thread exploded with shitposts. Let's all calm down a bit as Nurland was saying.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby kataklysmkx » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 1:32 am

I like arch's video, I think it was spot on.

charts don't lie, its not even an opinion anymore lol.

They tried to scheme and scam little kids and the "casual" mass of fish by making the game a gutted cartoony moba and baiting them with it, whats even worse is that when they released all the trailers the old fans/people told them straight up they didn't like it, and they still went for it. Show they don't really care about any of it anymore and tried a high risk scam. Imagine they succeeded and actually got a huge e-sports with all of these casual kids, the people who love the 40k theme/feel would of still felt like shit and betrayed and relic would of never cared, bottom line is it can be deduced they don't give a shit about 40k or its fans.

Honestly we got lucky it failed, this is a huge blessing, I'm 100% convinced the emperor had a hand in this.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Oddnerd » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 2:16 am

kataklysmkx wrote:Honestly we got lucky it failed, this is a huge blessing, I'm 100% convinced the emperor had a hand in this.


I think it only counts for something if they learn from this. I think that remains to be seen.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby GuruSkippy » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 11:55 am

To be really honest, I don't understand why people don't like DOW3.
I love it.
Sure, it's not perfect, and doens't look complete for 60€, I totally agree with this, but it was the same for DOW2 and COH2.

Actually, I think only people who liked both DOW1 & 2 can like DOW3.
Problem is, there is not a lot of them... And even with this potential pool of players, all of them won't like the game for different reasons, it's not binary...
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Zeno » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 1:00 pm

and doens't look complete for 60€, I totally agree with this, but it was the same for DOW2 and COH2.


DoW 2 was €40 at launch (I think). That wasn't bad value at all.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby GuruSkippy » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 1:56 pm

It was 50.
http://dawnofwartwo.blogspot.fr/2009/02 ... war-2.html
But it was in a muuuuuuuch worse state than DOW3 at launch.

But as I said, I do agree that 60€ for DOW3 is too much in its launch state.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Zeno » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 2:37 pm

All the prices in your link are in American Dollars. The Dollar is weaker than the Euro.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby GuruSkippy » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 3:25 pm

yup, but I remember the € prize was the same than the $ price, I wasn't happy.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby MaxPower » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 4:04 pm

Honest question: Who in their right mind buys games for 60 € from steam if you can get the same games cheaper from your big electronic markets?
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Psycho » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 5:02 pm

GuruSkippy wrote:To be really honest, I don't understand why people don't like DOW3.

Because, as it was said many times, it's barely a DoW game. It wasn't designed with the dedicated DoW1/2 people in mind but to expand their market to other people, shooting themselves in the foot since that alienated the aforementioned guys and they entered competition with things like Starcraft and MOBAs, with a game that can't even fit the criteria for both in the worst ways. For the MOBA demographic it's too complex for their interest due to controlling entire armies instead of just a hero that can't even level in DoW3, and for the Starcraft demographic people it's just a straight up downgrade with too many MOBA elements for their liking. In short, it's not MOBA enough to attract the MOBA demographic, and not pure RTS enough to attract the RTS demographic. By virtue of trying to attract said demographics, it's also not DoW enough to attract those who liked DoW1/2, trying to live off the hype of being the third installment if nothing else. Had it been released with another title that wasn't DoW, I can assure you it'd have had more success, though barely before it hits the issues involving the game's quality regardless of it being DoW or not.

Also NO PAUL DOBSON
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Shroom » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 5:21 pm

Psycho wrote:Also NO PAUL DOBSON

+++++++^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 5:48 pm

kataklysmkx wrote:They tried to scheme and scam little kids and the "casual" mass of fish by making the game a gutted cartoony moba and baiting them with it, whats even worse is that when they released all the trailers the old fans/people told them straight up they didn't like it, and they still went for it. Show they don't really care about any of it anymore and tried a high risk scam. Imagine they succeeded and actually got a huge e-sports with all of these casual kids, the people who love the 40k theme/feel would of still felt like shit and betrayed and relic would of never cared, bottom line is it can be deduced they don't give a shit about 40k or its fans.


What are you talking about? There is nothing 'cartoony' about the game. It's only like that at all low settings. Try putting DoW 2 on all low settings and tell me if you like it.

There is also nothing MOBA about it. There are no laned maps and creeps to fight with a single hero. The Power Core mode is just annihilation with a single building to attack as opposed to 3 strongholds. DoW 2 was also marketed as a MOBA if you had forgotten :p

Would like to say that I am in the camp of people who wanted an improved DoW 2. Doesn't mean the game isn't good though. It's main fault is that it's not finished and the 1 shots are extremely annoying.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Gorbles » Thu 08 Jun, 2017 12:51 am

Psycho wrote:
GuruSkippy wrote:To be really honest, I don't understand why people don't like DOW3.

Because, as it was said many times, it's barely a DoW game. It wasn't designed with the dedicated DoW1/2 people in mind but to expand their market to other people, shooting themselves in the foot since that alienated the aforementioned guys and they entered competition with things like Starcraft and MOBAs, with a game that can't even fit the criteria for both in the worst ways. For the MOBA demographic it's too complex for their interest due to controlling entire armies instead of just a hero that can't even level in DoW3, and for the Starcraft demographic people it's just a straight up downgrade with too many MOBA elements for their liking. In short, it's not MOBA enough to attract the MOBA demographic, and not pure RTS enough to attract the RTS demographic. By virtue of trying to attract said demographics, it's also not DoW enough to attract those who liked DoW1/2, trying to live off the hype of being the third installment if nothing else. Had it been released with another title that wasn't DoW, I can assure you it'd have had more success, though barely before it hits the issues involving the game's quality regardless of it being DoW or not.

Also NO PAUL DOBSON

"it wasn't designed for the dedicated DoW fans" is the exact rationale used against DoW II in its infancy. The same goes for releasing it "with another title that wasn't DoW".

Literally, to the word(s). That was the angle of criticism against the direction of DoW II as a departure to vDoW.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Psycho » Thu 08 Jun, 2017 1:05 am

Shit, he got me. Alright guys the show's over, hand back the 10k+ players DoW3 is supposed to have.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Arbit » Thu 08 Jun, 2017 3:58 am

kataklysmkx wrote:Honestly we got lucky it failed, this is a huge blessing, I'm 100% convinced the emperor had a hand in this.

Yes, what a blessing. Sega will see an attempt to modernize a well-liked franchise by a well-liked developer, get review bombed by a horde of morons for the game not being DoW enough (an impossible and arbitrary requisite to fulfill, because each iteration is radically different from one another) and being too much like a MOBA (despite the MOBA elements being almost entirely cosmetic). Sega will say, gosh, trying to cater to the last vestiges of the total rational and not-dying RTS fanbase is absolutely worth their while, and greenlight tons of new RTS games that are just perfect and the way you want them!

Or, you know, RTSs will go the way of flight sims.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby kataklysmkx » Thu 08 Jun, 2017 4:25 am

Arbit wrote:
kataklysmkx wrote:Honestly we got lucky it failed, this is a huge blessing, I'm 100% convinced the emperor had a hand in this.

Yes, what a blessing. Sega will see an attempt to modernize a well-liked franchise by a well-liked developer, get review bombed by a horde of morons for the game not being DoW enough (an impossible and arbitrary requisite to fulfill, because each iteration is radically different from one another) and being too much like a MOBA (despite the MOBA elements being almost entirely cosmetic). Sega will say, gosh, trying to cater to the last vestiges of the total rational and not-dying RTS fanbase is absolutely worth their while, and greenlight tons of new RTS games that are just perfect and the way you want them!

Or, you know, RTSs will go the way of flight sims.


Dunno bro, all I know is it's over. There were no winners in this in the end. That horde of morons just preferred a weightier, darker, a more coarsely ground look and feel to their 40k. Who's to say if that's what relic did they wouldn't be sitting at 20,000 players currently in game right now? sucking in even random non 40k casuals/kids. Could of been an epic decade with a different dow 3, fuck.
Last edited by kataklysmkx on Thu 08 Jun, 2017 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Psycho » Thu 08 Jun, 2017 4:27 am

You call people morons in the very first line and expect them to read that pile of guilt-tripping?
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Arbit » Thu 08 Jun, 2017 4:55 am

Psycho wrote:You call people morons in the very first line and expect them to read that pile of guilt-tripping?

The game has flaws, and people have their own tastes, so I fully expect some people to not like it. The degree of hate the game has received is way out of proportion though, and the campaign that people have waged to see it fail is, well, quite moronical. Total cutting-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face type activity.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby GuruSkippy » Thu 08 Jun, 2017 8:34 am

kataklysmkx wrote:There were no winners in this in the end

This.
No one should be happy, it's not good for Relic, it's not good for us.
Relic, obviously, if they didn't manage to reach their sale expectations, will probably have to fire some people. I know some people here and there will actually be happy with this, because DOW3 is not what they dream and feel totally betrayed...
And for us, we probably won't see a DOW4, or even worse, a WH40K RTS again, because all gaming companies will fear to do so.

I can't imagine what's going on right now at Relic's office, but it will be a miracle if they manage to make people come back.
Imo, they should focus on developing a coop mode, and/or a risk campaign to keep people playing. Focusing on multiplayer won't save them.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Thu 08 Jun, 2017 11:17 am

[The extension png has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]



The argument of people starting a hate campaign being the reason so many people are leaving DoW3 is not really valid. Look at how CoH2 is doing despite the mockery and hate it has seen over the time. It is still out-performing DoW3 by a lot which is only indicative of how bad the game seems to be to the majority of the people. You don't leave a game behind that you have payed for and think is good, just because somebody else said that it is bad. That is nonesense. People are leaving that game behind for one simple reason: They don't like it at all. Enough so to abandon a payed for game after 1 month.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby GuruSkippy » Thu 08 Jun, 2017 1:59 pm

It's one reason, for some of them, but not the only one. This is not binary.
I can think of many reasons why people leave the game, and all of them are valid.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Odysseus » Thu 08 Jun, 2017 3:55 pm

They'll have to come with some brilliant expansions. I sincerely hope for the people that enjoy Dawn of War III that they will, and that the game will follow a similar development as Company of Heroes 2 did, hated at the beginning, and improved later on with a (somewhat) returning playerbase.

If not, I hope they take this lesson to heart, and that the next Dawn of War will actually (correctly) feature all the things that made Dawn of War even a relevant franchise for fans like me.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Wise Windu » Fri 09 Jun, 2017 8:28 pm

I'd definitely agree with Nurland that the game clearly released unfinished, in more ways than just a lack of leaderboard or maps. There's also the classic Relic issues like replay bugs, or patches breaking replay files. Also just general lack of information, both in-game and out.

This is all usually due to lack of resources, staff (they still have job openings listed related to DoW3), and publisher deadline. Probably a combination, so it's hard to know who to blame or why. Releasing a game like this early without enough content is often a death sentence; when people put it down, they usually put it down permanently. And the campaign certainly wasn't enough to keep anyone playing. There just isn't enough to keep people interested for very long.

Not going to comment on the subjective stuff like game design and art. There's been enough of that, and it doesn't lead anywhere.

And most multiplayer games have balance issues on launch, so not necessarily a deciding factor there. Although the time it took to patch may have been an issue. And for the amount of 'content' in the patch, it's hard to understand why. Especially right after launch, when they're the most likely to still have the resources to dedicate to maintaining the game. At the very least, they could roll out bug fixes for the time between balance patches. Although one of the problems for them would end up being that new versions break old replays, and whatever other issues version mismatch might cause. A month is a long time for an online game to go without tweaks and fixes this early after release.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Shroom » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 12:12 am

Wise Windu wrote:patches breaking replay files

well to be fair that isn't just a relic thing. for lots of games new versions break replays from older versions.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Lost Son of Nikhel » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 11:11 am

Odysseus wrote:They'll have to come with some brilliant expansions. I sincerely hope for the people that enjoy Dawn of War III that they will, and that the game will follow a similar development as Company of Heroes 2 did, hated at the beginning, and improved later on with a (somewhat) returning playerbase.

If not, I hope they take this lesson to heart, and that the next Dawn of War will actually (correctly) feature all the things that made Dawn of War even a relevant franchise for fans like me.

The problem is, with the fail that DOW3 is, I doubt there is going to be a DOW 4 in a future.

DOW 3 could be the end of the DOW franchise, sadly.
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Tinibombini » Mon 12 Jun, 2017 1:22 am

Maybe have an observer mode so that it is actually possible to cast these tournaments for the new epsorts sensation that is DoW 3?
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Adeptus Noobus » Mon 12 Jun, 2017 8:51 am

Tinibombini wrote:Maybe have an observer mode so that it is actually possible to cast these tournaments for the new epsorts sensation that is DoW 3?

Image
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Re: "The community" and DOW3

Postby Lost Son of Nikhel » Mon 12 Jun, 2017 11:48 am

Tinibombini wrote:Maybe have an observer mode so that it is actually possible to cast these tournaments for the new epsorts sensation that is DoW 3?

What????? DoW 3 don't have an Observer mode??? :shock:
"Pater, peccavi in caelum et coram te; iam non sum dignus vocari filius tuus". Dixit autem pater: "manducemus et epulemur, quia hic filius meus mortuus erat et revixit, perierat et inventus est"

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