Ork reveal for DOW 3

Carnevour
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Re: Ork reveal for DOW 3

Postby Carnevour » Thu 22 Dec, 2016 1:48 pm

Odysseus wrote:It's mostly the art direction they are taking and their stance to making the game more e-sports ''friendly''. Starcraft II has an absolute monopoly on the RTS Esports, so in my opinion, going that route is just going to end in another disappointment. Relic has tasted the ESL with COH2, so now they can't let go of the taste.

I also personally compare it to Starcraft because Starcraft has set the standard for the traditional RTS games for well over a decade now. Any new RTS game introduced always has to look at their entrance and position in the market compared to Starcraft, since it is the only RTS game still alive after all this time with actually a positive source of income. Once more, Relic wants the Esports, they crave the Esports, which is why they took inspiration from Starcraft II and MOBAs, which they literally stated in their interviews, in the hopes of gaining and maintaining a bigger audience.


Yet Starcraft 2 is pretty much dead thx to the mishandling of Blizzard. They had a monopoly on RTS but they dont have it anymore. The only thing that stops from having a new rts in the e-sports scene is a big name to contend with SC2. I have no clue whether DoW series still have the same strenght of brand it had but its the only contender i can think off. Only time can tell whether it can be a rival and it is still mainly a community driven effort.
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Odysseus
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Re: Ork reveal for DOW 3

Postby Odysseus » Thu 22 Dec, 2016 3:24 pm

I hear you Carnevour. Not sure about the mishandling part, there are still tournaments of decent size, you can watch them regularly on ESL's Youtube channel, but I don't know what kind of of numbers Blizzard draws from them. That said, we shall see how DoW III does. I don't think I'm the only that sees Dawn of War more than just a little game, a dear franchise that has given us many enjoyable moments. I could only be content if it will do well.
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MaxPower
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Re: Ork reveal for DOW 3

Postby MaxPower » Thu 22 Dec, 2016 6:26 pm

Gorbles wrote:I thought we were talking about the ingame models, sorry; the cinematic models are definitely more stretched-out. I'm not sure whether I think they're right or not either, but then again that wouldn't be the first artistic license the cinematic videos have taken.

(the 2ed models are also smaller than the 6ed kits, from what I remember. Certainly, units like Assault Marines have changed perceptably; moreso than Tacticals)


Oh, well, maybe I should have made myself a bit clearer then. Because I don't have a problem with the actual ingame models, they look fine (apart from some animations [but that is whole different story]), its the models used for the cinematics.

So yeah, sorry again for not making it clear from the get go which models I meant. :oops:
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Re: Ork reveal for DOW 3

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Thu 22 Dec, 2016 9:49 pm

@Odysseus Counterstrike is more popular than Starcraft. Don't know why you would say it's just a small candle compared to it.

Starcraft isn't a good game. Don't know why you're all talking about it. Is it the biggest RTS? Yes. Is it any good? No. The way I look at it, another RTS game could easily come in and take its place if it's good enough. This is the reason why I'm so exited since Relic is going to focus on the gameplay with no compromises for DoW 3.

For those who haven't played Starcraft 2 so they don't know what I'm talking about, the reason it's so bad is because there's nothing to do in the game. Endlessly hitting units with an artificially high apm is what keeps people busy for when there's nothing to do. In Relic games they have 'overwatch' that you can put on a unit and it'll keep on producing whenever you have the resources, so there's no point in hitting units over and over again unless you want to hide that there's nothing to do. Relic puts resources out on the field so you're forced to get out of your base and fight for it; not just sit around doing nothing for a few minutes then a-move them to the opponents base. Just because this tendinitis simulator of a game is popular in South Korea doesn't mean that it's good.

Judging by the Archon mode in SC2, they're experimenting for SC3 to see what it would be like to not have to waste your apm on mindless nothingness. Hopefully they improve and come out with a good RTS game and stop losing to MOBA's.
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Odysseus
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Re: Ork reveal for DOW 3

Postby Odysseus » Thu 22 Dec, 2016 10:43 pm

Paranoid Kamikaze wrote:@Odysseus Counterstrike is more popular than Starcraft. Don't know why you would say it's just a small candle compared to it.

Starcraft isn't a good game.


You are correct, but I mean to say that it's not even an RTS. It takes an FPS, the most played genre together with sport games (For consoles and PC anyway) to actually have a competitive game surpass Starcraft II, because the RTS genre can do very little against it. Starcraft has cult-status, and it will take quite some time before that goes away, if it ever will.

About the second part, it's not that simple. Because you don't enjoy the game, doesn't mean that others don't (I assumed you don't like the game because of your tone on Starcraft). I have played Starcraft II as well, at least on my previous PC and thought it was a decent game (Did remove it due to concerns for HDD space, as the patches were quite large, in my opinion). It's not the kind of strategy game I enjoy the most, but it's a game with a lot of depth, which is why there is an E-sports about it. It doesn't really matter what kind of bias we hold, its legacy speaks for itself. It holds true to the classic RTS formula, which is still the formula you see the most for RTS, for better or worse. Apparently, there are still some people that enjoy the tried and proven.

As it is quite evident you don't like APM, which is a theme that exists not only in Starcraft II, but in all games that require a functioning mouse, it provides a lot of room to dinstinguish experienced players from newcomers. Even if it is spent on ''nothing''. As such, I don't understand your dislike for it. Although, I do agree with you that some of it could be more optimised for the sake of accessability. Still, APM is very important for a competitive and fast-paced game, no matter which one. More clicks means more things happening, meaning the speed of the game is increased and creating intense, fast-paced gameplay. I have never seen a professional game where APM is not high.

I highly, highly doubt DoW III will reach anything of Starcraft levels, but then again, for me it is a win-win situation, because I'd love Dawn of War to increase in popularity (again). I just feel this is not the way they should approach it. Anyway, it's just a feeling, and it is not really based on any facts or statistics, so the end result could prove me wrong. I hope it does, really...
Paranoid Kamikaze
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Re: Ork reveal for DOW 3

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Thu 22 Dec, 2016 10:57 pm

I don't mind having a high apm; I actually like it. What I don't like is having to spend that apm on something not necessary.

The reason I don't like Starcraft is because of the void between attacks where you just sit in base hittings buttons you shouldn't have to and then there's a fight a few minutes later. In DoW 2 there is fast paced fighting the entire game and that's what I enjoy. All Starcraft has to do to make me like it is have objectives on the field (so people are forced go out and fight) and to allow overwatch on units.
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Re: Ork reveal for DOW 3

Postby Nurland » Fri 23 Dec, 2016 8:14 am

SC2 has a bit less actionless lull now since you start with more workers and starting base hass less minerals. --> cuts out some of the boring early game stuff and forces you to expand quicker.

Anyway high level games don't have much time where nothing happens. Scouting, expanding, teching are things that tend to happen when not fighting. Apart from the standard macro stuff.
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