DoW3 new footage

enasni127
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby enasni127 » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 7:47 am

Gorb wrote:I was telling you you were wrong about your assumptions about 32-bit applications and the likelihood that DoW III would be 32-bit. You then brought up a dated example of a series the newest version of which is 64-bit.

I don't know what DoW III is or will be. It's safe to assume it'll be 64-bit, of course, but you're trying to spin a story where it's 32-bit. I never said you were wrong about older Total War games, but the newest game is factually 64-bit.

I'm just a bit confused at what you're getting at.



OK, 64bit for TW: Warhammer seems to be right. I still think my assumptions about the problems of 32-bit applications are absolutely right. A 32-bit engine is limited to the usuage of 32bit and that can obviously cause problems with RAM usage. Ofcourse this depends on the title and many factors like resource-management, resolutions, details, number of objects and so on. I don't say a 32bit engine makes no sense in general, they are fine for some games.

And here's what I'm getting at:
My last hope for DoW 3 are huge battles which run absolutely smooth and responsive and this is why I was ASKING if somebody knows something about the used engine. I just fear that 3v3's (or maybe 4v4's) could turn out to be a massive lag-party which would ruin the multiplayer of DoW3.

Edit:

just to explain my concerns a bit further. Regarding DoW 3 I'm one of those guys who absolutely dislike what who has seen so far. I still cannot believe that this is what Relic really wants. My speculation is that SEGA could be a bit worried about the success of another DoW title and so decided to give Relic the chance of doing it but with a very tight budget. Now the guys at Relic would have to make very harsh decission on how this could turn out to be a good game which included all promised features and thus would have to make ugly deals here and there like that stupid clown-like walking animations, the ridiculous FX's (which are far away from making the game clear and visible!!) and overall that ultra-bad bubble cover system (which is among the worst i've ever seen) and all that stuff. I mean, what could have happend to make such a good series THAT bad?! I still cannot believe it.
Gorbles
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Gorbles » Tue 23 Aug, 2016 9:12 am

I don't think that the animations or FX have anything to do with the budget for the game. I mean, it's absolutely fine that you don't like it (as much as I want everyone to like it!), but you not liking it doesn't mean that it didn't cost a lot of money to make.
KanKrusha
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby KanKrusha » Thu 25 Aug, 2016 2:54 am

Yeah, if they wanted to save money they could have reskinned the DOW2 models.
enasni127
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby enasni127 » Fri 26 Aug, 2016 1:30 pm

KanKrusha wrote:Yeah, if they wanted to save money they could have reskinned the DOW2 models.



I wish they had....you can't imagine how much I do. ;(
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby DandyFrontline » Fri 26 Aug, 2016 8:52 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01khj0vnmpM
Now you know 'em all in da face
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Carnevour » Tue 30 Aug, 2016 6:16 pm

DandyFrontline wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01khj0vnmpM
Now you know 'em all in da face

Can we know you as well in the face?
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby DandyFrontline » Tue 30 Aug, 2016 8:03 pm

Carnevour wrote:
DandyFrontline wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01khj0vnmpM
Now you know 'em all in da face

Can we know you as well in the face?


What for
Carnevour
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Carnevour » Tue 30 Aug, 2016 9:07 pm

DandyFrontline wrote:
Carnevour wrote:
DandyFrontline wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01khj0vnmpM
Now you know 'em all in da face

Can we know you as well in the face?


What for

Implying the people in the video some how offend the people who dislike DoW3 and did something wrong for having a different opinion and then uttering the ''now you know 'em all in da face''. So i want to see da face of people who dislike DoW3 (you) just so we can know you in da face as well.
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Swift » Tue 30 Aug, 2016 11:40 pm

...

Swift's new Nazi forum guidelines don't permit pettiness. Now. can we discuss this video in a way doesn't promote snide remarks?
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Vindicarex » Sun 04 Sep, 2016 7:38 pm

Lol all the DOW1 people hated DOW II for exactly what you're hating DOWIII on (base building) - go ahead and not buy it - but I guarantee DOWIII will do better with base buildings than without.

Personally I don't mind either way. I think going back to a more classical style of RTS is better than this silly 15 min VP games and pressing X to save your dudes.
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Sun 04 Sep, 2016 8:10 pm

Vindicarex wrote:Lol all the DOW1 people hated DOW II for exactly what you're hating DOWIII on (base building) - go ahead and not buy it - but I guarantee DOWIII will do better with base buildings than without.

Personally I don't mind either way. I think going back to a more classical style of RTS is better than this silly 15 min VP games and pressing X to save your dudes.


DoW 3 is being hated on for various reasons. My own reason for changing my opinion on the game was when one guy said they were 'simplifying' the game and making it about just throwing units at each other. Don't think anyone dislikes the game because of base building. They just want a good UI that doesn't artificially increase the amount of clicks required to play the game.
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Vindicarex » Sun 04 Sep, 2016 8:26 pm

Not like DOWII's complexity gave it any real longevity as an RTS. In fact, I'd say it caused more problems than its worth. I'm glad they're "simplifying" things - it's not automatically a bad thing.
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Ace of Swords » Sun 04 Sep, 2016 8:29 pm

Vindicarex wrote:Not like DOWII's complexity gave it any real longevity as an RTS. In fact, I'd say it caused more problems than its worth. I'm glad they're "simplifying" things - it's not automatically a bad thing.


We've already went through this, read the older posts, dow2 and all relic games die fairly quick for the poor multiplayer balancing, lack of PR, lack of publicity and lack of any real tournament sponsored by the dev/publisher.

Oh and well, the generally terrible polishing of the game as far as bugs go.
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Gorbles » Sun 04 Sep, 2016 8:34 pm

Considering that people still play vDoW, we're gonna have to define "dead" here. The games themselves never had a high playerbase even at peak interest. DoW II still idles at 1,000, and vDoW settles somewhere half of that.

Are you expecting the playerbase to compete with DotA 2 or something? We need to define what we consider successful vs. what we don't. Certainly I don't think vDoW's longevity has anything to do with multiplayer balance at all. That game thrives solely on its modding scene, even these days. DoW II players, I found, especially ones from online communities like this one, placed far too much importance on "MP balance" when it didn't actually drive sales.

Would good MP balance be nice? Absolutely. But it wasn't the deal-breaker it's made out to be.

There's a reason they released The Last Standalone, and it wasn't because TLS was unpopular :D
Last edited by Gorbles on Sun 04 Sep, 2016 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vindicarex
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Vindicarex » Sun 04 Sep, 2016 8:34 pm

The myriad of bugs and decision to use overly complex GFWL + Steam certainly didn't help the multiplayer experience. These are bugs directly caused by engine coding for "dynamic cover" - i.e. units getting stuck on terrain.

To say the game died because Relic didn't push its multiplayer enough is pretty shortsighted imho. They do that a lot in CoH2 right now and that game is itself isn't so popular and likely to die once tournament scene dies off.

A game isn't popular simply because it didn't attract enough people to stay for multiplayer for enough time - look at blizzard games. Their entire success is their wild popularity, not their "promotion."
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Ace of Swords » Sun 04 Sep, 2016 8:50 pm

Vindicarex wrote:The myriad of bugs and decision to use overly complex GFWL + Steam certainly didn't help the multiplayer experience. These are bugs directly caused by engine coding for "dynamic cover" - i.e. units getting stuck on terrain.

To say the game died because Relic didn't push its multiplayer enough is pretty shortsighted imho. They do that a lot in CoH2 right now and that game is itself isn't so popular and likely to die once tournament scene dies off.

A game isn't popular simply because it didn't attract enough people to stay for multiplayer for enough time - look at blizzard games. Their entire success is their wild popularity, not their "promotion."


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand their wild popularity comes from...?

Being well made games, doesn't matter how simple or hard they are, nor how accessible, people want an interesting universe and characters (which we have) but most people and I would say almost everyone bar a small fringe of players WILL NOT put up with relic's bullshit, they want a working ladder from the go and they want it to be legit (something we didn't have in either DoW games, I mean maybe it worked for what? A few months before it was exploited with bugs & hacks which have never been persecuted regardless of how many reports they have got, the only thing I remember was a ladder wipe which still didn't fix those issues), people also want a game where their abilities and units work properly (which yet again we don't have in any of the games) and they want games that look good and run well (which we don't have with CoH2, I guess now that their other games are older they run extremely well regardless of machine, though I personally don't recall having performance issues with coh1/dow1/dow2).

I could go on forever but I think it's pointless, history proves me right already and you only need to analyze where they failed, which is honestly not in my interest nor duty to do so, it's relic and SEGA that should care in making successful and long lasting games (and I mean both dow1 and coh1 and homeworld were all successful brands, but both DoW2 and even more so CoH 2failed to meet a lot of the expectations).
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Tinibombini » Mon 05 Sep, 2016 2:19 am

Vindicarex wrote:A game isn't popular simply because it didn't attract enough people to stay for multiplayer for enough time - look at blizzard games. Their entire success is their wild popularity, not their "promotion."


Did you just say that they are successful because they are successful? because a game that is popular means it is successful. Kind of a circular explanation but thanks for helping us get to the bottom of this.
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Gorbles » Mon 05 Sep, 2016 4:46 pm

Ace of Swords wrote:I could go on forever but I think it's pointless, history proves me right already and you only need to analyze where they failed, which is honestly not in my interest nor duty to do so, it's relic and SEGA that should care in making successful and long lasting games (and I mean both dow1 and coh1 and homeworld were all successful brands, but both DoW2 and even more so CoH 2failed to meet a lot of the expectations).

This is a troublesome paragraph for a few reasons, sorry.

1. vDoW and vCoH had no expectations because they were new IPs. The same went for the original Homeworld. You don't know of the problems around fan reception to Homeworld 2? And let's not talk about Cataclysm :p

DoW II and CoH 2 had expectations because they were sequels. The same goes for DoW III.

2. What do we count as "long-lasting", because at this point DoW II still has a better online playerbase than vDoW (and seven years is a long time). While I'm sure a large part of that is down to ELITE, a lot of vDoW's popularity is down to its mods as well.

vDoW basically never had a working ladder, either. Well, it was rife with problems at the very least (GameSpy yay).

Relic's job is undoubtably harder because there are so many expectations around their games these days. But that doesn't mean that the originals are somehow better - they only seem better by comparison because people had no idea what to expect at the time.
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Tinibombini » Mon 05 Sep, 2016 8:41 pm

Gorb wrote:1. vDoW and vCoH had no expectations because they were new IPs. The same went for the original Homeworld. You don't know of the problems around fan reception to Homeworld 2? And let's not talk about Cataclysm :p



Games that are new IPs have no expectations associated with them? really? better tell that to the people that bought No Man's Sky.

There are going to be baseline expectations associated with games just by virtue of their genre. With an RTS, a reasonable expectation is that MP will be balanced for example - that is IP-independent.
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Gorbles » Mon 05 Sep, 2016 9:00 pm

Holy red herring, Batman!

NMS was a game hyped by the entire industry and released in the year 2016, where most first-world people no longer have dial-up. It also wasn't an RTS. Dawn of War was released in 2004, where DVD-ROMs for games was pretty much non-existent, patches were uploaded to FileFront, and my parents at the very least still had a 56k modem.

You need better analogies. Sequels have more baseline expectations than the random assertions of people who like MP declaring that a baseline for an RTS game was the MP. For me, I prefer a fleshed-out SP Campaign, which is why Planetary Annihilation didn't hold my attention for as long as I would've liked it to.
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Tinibombini » Mon 05 Sep, 2016 9:09 pm

I am addressing your assertion without support that those games had no expectations associated with them. Fine if you don't like the analogy but we have no reason to believe that there were no expectations associated with DOW other than your say so.

Maybe you will appreciate the fact that DOW was not actually a new IP. That is the first flaw. There were computer games based on the IP, not to mention a substantial IP associated with the Warhammer 40K. People who were familiar with the Warhammer 40K would most likely have certain expectations.

Also, I don't think many RTS' are praised for their single player since all the AIs are terrible (homeworld may be the exception that proves the rule). The AI actually cannot play the game properly. vDOW (as you call it) was not different in this regard and was recognized as having an uninspired sp campaign.
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Gorbles » Tue 06 Sep, 2016 9:44 am

vDoW was a new IP for the RTS genre, the only thing having come close was the Shadow of the Horned Rat (which is Warhammer Fantasy, was nine years older, and had no multiplayer component at all. The sequel had MP, but it was a limited component similar to how Total War battles work). For your reference.

It's depressing when people try and make this into a game of semantics just to win some kind of point. If I had included in the word "such", to make "no such expectations", you wouldn't have been able to pick apart three words on a technicality. But if you want to debate technicalities, everyone will tell you there's no better person than I to go over this kind of pointless detail with (and no, that's not me bigging myself up. Quite the opposite :p).

By dint of DoW II being a sequel, people expected the baseline of vDoW in addition to any unspoken assumptions about the genre. The same goes for CoH 2. The base games only had the default assumptions (for games released a decade or more ago, too, back when games analysis wasn't as critical as it is today) associated with a game of that type.

Which yes, included a Single-Player campaign. The AI might be beatable (it'd be a pretty poor single-player experience if the AI wasn't beatable) or even flawed on a number of levels but series like Command and Conquer were known for their Single Player experiences. Starcraft and Warcraft, too. Their respective MP scenes came later on, when the games had already established a large playerbase (particularly in the case of Brood War, as everyone knows).

Also, I'm guessing your SP quote you're paraphrasing from Wikipedia, so here's the full excerpt:
Conversely, an area of the game that drew criticism was the single player campaign, which many reviewers found to be too short and unchallenging.[14][15] Another area of weakness identified was a lack of originality in the gameplay. However, these weaknesses were considered to be minor, IGN summarising "Nothing about the gameplay will really surprise anyone (though the addition of reinforceable squads is pretty neat) but it doesn't particularly matter...Relic kicked ass creating a great piece of entertainment."[11] The French website Jeux PC awarded the game 16 out of 20, in particular praising the simplicity of the user interface and the intensity of the battles.[16] German reviewer Daniel Matschijewsky awarded the game 83 out of 100, praising the user interface and the sound, but identifying the campaign and the AI as weaker areas.[17]

Note that something being unchallenging doesn't mean "the AI can't play the game properly". The same goes for a single German magazine identifying the AI as a "weaker area". You're assuming that. The vDoW Campaign AI actually held up very well for the time - more than the MP AI did really.

And certainly, for all the faults the AI had, people were still expecting a Single Player campaign. I know I was! This was back in the dial-up days, remember? A singleplayer component was expected with all games. I downloaded the demo from FileFront whilst on holiday in Spain so I could play a limited amount of the missions, back in the day.
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Tue 06 Sep, 2016 7:44 pm

I remember back in the old days when there were no free to play games. As a kid I had to download demos of games and then actually ended up playing a demo with an online peer-to-peer lobby for 5 years. Those were depressing times.
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Ace of Swords » Thu 15 Sep, 2016 5:38 pm

http://www.pcgamer.com/dawn-of-war-3-el ... -detailed/

Jonah Orion revelead as a new playable hero in DoW3.

Though it's been a while since the last time I've played the campaign but didn't this guy die regardless of the ending?
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Caeltos » Thu 15 Sep, 2016 5:51 pm

I believe his "corpse" could be seen prior to engaging Kyras, near the last reinforcement point. However, nobody took notice of him, and he could just have been gravely wounded, but still alive.

Charging into battle after battle, he miraculously survived what was thought to be mortal wounds. His sacrifices caught the attention of Chapter Master Gabriel Angelos, who promoted him to Chief Librarian of the Blood Ravens."


There's your answer!

3D Model of Jonah Orion
https://sketchfab.com/models/f248e38a1d ... af6b4b60e9
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Ace of Swords » Thu 15 Sep, 2016 6:07 pm

Caeltos wrote:I believe his "corpse" could be seen prior to engaging Kyras, near the last reinforcement point. However, nobody took notice of him, and he could just have been gravely wounded, but still alive.

Charging into battle after battle, he miraculously survived what was thought to be mortal wounds. His sacrifices caught the attention of Chapter Master Gabriel Angelos, who promoted him to Chief Librarian of the Blood Ravens."


There's your answer!

3D Model of Jonah Orion
https://sketchfab.com/models/f248e38a1d ... af6b4b60e9


https://youtu.be/hpXIEY3mqC4?t=569

That's a retcon then.
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Psycho » Thu 15 Sep, 2016 6:18 pm

He got blacker?
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Carnevour » Fri 16 Sep, 2016 8:06 am

Librarian lives matters.
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Gorbles » Fri 16 Sep, 2016 10:29 am

Ace of Swords wrote:
Caeltos wrote:I believe his "corpse" could be seen prior to engaging Kyras, near the last reinforcement point. However, nobody took notice of him, and he could just have been gravely wounded, but still alive.

Charging into battle after battle, he miraculously survived what was thought to be mortal wounds. His sacrifices caught the attention of Chapter Master Gabriel Angelos, who promoted him to Chief Librarian of the Blood Ravens."


There's your answer!

3D Model of Jonah Orion
https://sketchfab.com/models/f248e38a1d ... af6b4b60e9


https://youtu.be/hpXIEY3mqC4?t=569

That's a retcon then.

Except that it's not a retcon? He very nearly died (as everyone had thought had happened during the fight with Kyras) but managed to survive (plot points, ho).
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Re: DoW3 new footage

Postby Swift » Fri 16 Sep, 2016 11:31 pm

I see... As Librarians get older they lose their texture quality.
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