Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Dukenukem117
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Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Dukenukem117 » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 11:29 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAy0N-l ... e=youtu.be

I gotta say, this looks like a big step back.

Dynamic cover? Nope - bubble cover points
Suppression? Nope - ability spam
Set-up? Nope - attack-move
Destructible terrain? Nope - preset paths
Sync-Kills? Nope - things die too fast

Visuals, feel, and tone can be argued over, but this looks like the gameplay got dumbed down massively. All the hallmark Relic things are gone. Such a shame...
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Torpid » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 1:27 pm

Yep. Looks awful.

I'm not going to get it at release I doubt. I think I will stick to Halo Wars 2.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Ace of Swords » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 2:22 pm

Isn't this the same they showed on stream?
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Oddnerd » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 4:00 pm

[The extension png has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]




I still can't accept that they replaced the voice actor for Darius/Garen/Gabriel... whatever his name is (also he appears to be a tank now, not a melee brawler, so they weren't lying when they said certain elements would change as the release approaches). The distinctive Dobson voice has been with us since the first release and is not a trivial change to make. I think Blizzard made the same mistake with their wow series - they took characters with distinctive voices and replaced them with generic sounding, average-skilled voice actors.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Gorbles » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 4:22 pm

Actually, Dobson didn't feature in at least one of the DoW II titles. Can't remember which one, though. Might have been the Campaigns for vDoW II and CR, or Retribution. One of the two (sets).

As for it being a trivial change, voice actors are represented by unions and have tremendously-busy schedules. Sometimes there isn't much choice about it.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Oddnerd » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 7:33 pm

He was in Vanilla DOW2; he was in Chaos Rising (or at least it sounded like him); and I believe he was in retribution. Maybe they replaced him for one title, but all the DOW2 Angelos voices sound like Dobson. This new guy sounds nothing like the old Angelos.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Carnevour » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 7:39 pm

Its hilarious that people bitch and moan yet are still following the developer process of the game. Its like you are masochists.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Oddnerd » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 7:43 pm

There is nothing funny/strange about it. Many of us have been playing DOW games since the very first release, and really want DOW3 to be a great game because we would enjoy another great 40K game. What is so confusing about that?
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Carnevour » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 7:48 pm

Oddnerd wrote:There is nothing funny/strange about it. Many of us have been playing DOW games since the very first release, and really want DOW3 to be a great game because we would enjoy another great 40K game. What is so confusing about that?


People don't know what they want. This is why most of the people who are constantly moaning still follow the DoW3 developer process and will probably still buy the sodding game after. The only thing that is different is that they think are entitled to shit on anything and then act as it never happened.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Psycho » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:20 pm

Carnevour calm down, you've been behaving like this ever since the first DoW3 thread appeared.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Tinibombini » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:49 pm

Sorcerer wrote:Carnevour calm down, you've been behaving like this ever since the first DoW3 thread appeared.



He gets excited and forgets I guess....

Carnevour wrote:Aight mods fair enough i did overstep a few boundaries.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby DandyFrontline » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:38 pm

Well, think ill be playing Warhammer Total War instead of this. Atleast CA made something good after their epic fail with Rome2 and DLC's
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Oddnerd » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:52 pm

Carnevour wrote:
Oddnerd wrote:There is nothing funny/strange about it. Many of us have been playing DOW games since the very first release, and really want DOW3 to be a great game because we would enjoy another great 40K game. What is so confusing about that?


People don't know what they want. This is why most of the people who are constantly moaning still follow the DoW3 developer process and will probably still buy the sodding game after. The only thing that is different is that they think are entitled to shit on anything and then act as it never happened.


Technically, as long as our posts don't violate the rules of the forum, we are entitled to shit on anything we want; other peoples' precious feelings be damned.

I still don't understand why you think is weird for people to follow the development of DOW3 even if we don't like what we see. We want to like DOW3, really, really bad. A new DOW game that continued DOW1 and DOW2's legacy of being a niche 40K-based strategy game is something most people here want (and are aware of wanting, in spite of your claim that we don't know what we want). We want DOW3 to be great, but from what we have seen it doesn't look like it will be... how you decide that the only sensible thing for us to do is ignore all subsequent sneak peeks makes no sense.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Swift » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 10:58 pm

Do I have to remind you that this thread is about the dev commentary and not a Carnevour vs The World title fight? Come on digital basement-dwelling lightweights, shape up.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Caeltos » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 3:38 am

Still interested. Still seems better then DOW2. 8-)
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby darthmisery » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 6:52 am

But in my opinion it's not better than Dow elite. Looks like I'll be playing elite for years more to come.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Dukenukem117 » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 7:30 am

Carnevour wrote:
Oddnerd wrote:There is nothing funny/strange about it. Many of us have been playing DOW games since the very first release, and really want DOW3 to be a great game because we would enjoy another great 40K game. What is so confusing about that?


People don't know what they want. This is why most of the people who are constantly moaning still follow the DoW3 developer process and will probably still buy the sodding game after. The only thing that is different is that they think are entitled to shit on anything and then act as it never happened.


This is probably a more serious response than your post merits, but lets pretend to be adults here. First of all, I work as a designer in consumer products, but I have plenty of friends who do game development. Yes, there is a kernel of truth in "people don't know what they want", and no game designer worth his salt is going to build a game entirely based on surveys and questionnaires. But they don't build it in secret either, and they are constantly testing if the gameplay works. The biggest question that haunts developers is "will anyone else think this is fun?" In the beginning they can only test it among their fellow developers for confidentiality and publicity reasons. The general public will not be able to overlook the very crude prototypes and judge it strictly by gameplay, but testing it only among fellow developers is also a very skewed sample size. At some point, you will have to bring in strangers with no stake, no energy, and no ego invested, and hope they like it. And while people are not good at telling developers what they want, they are much better at telling developers what they don't want.

These early screenshots, trailers, and walkthroughs are not just marketing for building hype, they are also testing the waters of your audience. Developers want to know what people will think based on the footage they release, because its not practical to bring a game to beta-quality when fundamental gameplay issues are still in question. Redesigning a game after it reaches beta is incredibly expensive, so releasing screenshots, trailers, and highly scripted and controlled gameplay footage is a much cheaper alternative. At this point, the developers have pretty much revealed how they want the game to be played, so I can definitely make accurate early judgments on the direction of the game design.

Secondly, no, I will not buy it if I think it plays like this. I played DoW1 to death in high school, and DoW2 in college, but I definitely do not have time for boring uninspired games these days. I will gladly pay $60 for 8 hours of sublime experience than 80 hours of repetitive crap. The only reason I'm even following this is because DoW and 40K bring back good memories, but I'm not demanding the developers to make the game I want to play or screaming my head off over the ending of Mass Effect 3. They didn't ruin my childhood, they didn't commit sacrilege, they didn't wrong me in any way. They just built a product that doesn't appeal to me and devalued their brand in my eyes, and if they want my money and endorsement, they will try to fix that. If they decide my opinion is an outlier, they will ignore it because I'm only one lost customer. But if a significant number of people (it doesn't even have to be a majority) feel the way I do, then they should pay attention or they will lose a large chunk of their player base. Furthermore, I have provided itemized feedback on where I think the game falls short, so they at least have a starting point to work from. They don't have to put everything I listed back in, but they should get the message that some of us expected a more complex and challenging RTS that is inline with their past games, and this simply does not look anything like that.

And if you think this is a waste of time and developers don't listen, need I remind you...

THIS WAS STARCRAFT AT ONE POINT:

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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Carnevour » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 8:38 am

This is probably a more serious response than your post merits, but lets pretend to be adults here. First of all, I work as a designer in consumer products, but I have plenty of friends who do game development. Yes, there is a kernel of truth in "people don't know what they want", and no game designer worth his salt is going to build a game entirely based on surveys and questionnaires. But they don't build it in secret either, and they are constantly testing if the gameplay works. The biggest question that haunts developers is "will anyone else think this is fun?" In the beginning they can only test it among their fellow developers for confidentiality and publicity reasons. The general public will not be able to overlook the very crude prototypes and judge it strictly by gameplay, but testing it only among fellow developers is also a very skewed sample size. At some point, you will have to bring in strangers with no stake, no energy, and no ego invested, and hope they like it. And while people are not good at telling developers what they want, they are much better at telling developers what they don't want.

These early screenshots, trailers, and walkthroughs are not just marketing for building hype, they are also testing the waters of your audience. Developers want to know what people will think based on the footage they release, because its not practical to bring a game to beta-quality when fundamental gameplay issues are still in question. Redesigning a game after it reaches beta is incredibly expensive, so releasing screenshots, trailers, and highly scripted and controlled gameplay footage is a much cheaper alternative. At this point, the developers have pretty much revealed how they want the game to be played, so I can definitely make accurate early judgments on the direction of the game design.

Secondly, no, I will not buy it if I think it plays like this. I played DoW1 to death in high school, and DoW2 in college, but I definitely do not have time for boring uninspired games these days. I will gladly pay $60 for 8 hours of sublime experience than 80 hours of repetitive crap. The only reason I'm even following this is because DoW and 40K bring back good memories, but I'm not demanding the developers to make the game I want to play or screaming my head off over the ending of Mass Effect 3. They didn't ruin my childhood, they didn't commit sacrilege, they didn't wrong me in any way. They just built a product that doesn't appeal to me and devalued their brand in my eyes, and if they want my money and endorsement, they will try to fix that. If they decide my opinion is an outlier, they will ignore it because I'm only one lost customer. But if a significant number of people (it doesn't even have to be a majority) feel the way I do, then they should pay attention or they will lose a large chunk of their player base. Furthermore, I have provided itemized feedback on where I think the game falls short, so they at least have a starting point to work from. They don't have to put everything I listed back in, but they should get the message that some of us expected a more complex and challenging RTS that is inline with their past games, and this simply does not look anything like that.




The only problem of the thing you stated was said in the other threads. People cant explain what exactly they dislike about the current DoW3 in development. The only thing i hear is: muh graphics and mOba in meh DoWn3'', which doesnt really justify their opinion, rather making these types of people look childish.

Everyone seems to be so concentrated on the graphical aspect of the game that they fail to see that this game is actually creating interesting concepts and bringing new mechanics while streamlining the shit aspects of previous games a.k.a cover system (that was always buggy and didnt work for half of the time, hello autarch cover bug). Or the ''realistic'' movements of squads getting 1 guy stuck between some rock, other 2 guys come back running to him for no reason in retreat. Mind you that by the looks of it this game is more hardcore and more demanding to players in both micro and macro aspect as well as being more fast paced then your slug fest that is DoW2. You know it is a really casual thing when a game is harder to master.
Yeah DoW2 was really greatly ''Inspired'' by ripping most of the features from CoH1 and frankenstein it together with the Warhammer license for a cash grab since THQ were in the shitter at that point (Yes even then). Rushing the game on a market and killing the newborn creation before it could sound its first fart.

You do really expect me to believe that the biggest target audience is the Warhammer fans? Tell me how many of those fans play DoW games regularly. Warhammer is still a very popular franchise i mind you, yet when it comes to games they arent that popular are they (non sales wise)? From a financial and business standpoint would you cater for a broader audience that actually plays the sodding game and will buy it as well (sacrificing some of the aesthetics for gameplay) , or the bearded men in their 30s that still prefer to wanking on tabletop and dont have the time or bother to actually play PC games regularly? You being a developer i think the choice is obvious. It will sound like im a prick but fans are retarded, all fandoms in a sense are retarded, since they obsess over something that doesn't influence their daily lives in any way expect acting like complete dumb-asses. But i digress, what i wanted to say is that fans although constantly bitchy and irrational can eat some shit and be fine in the long run, but to attract a large community of new players you need for your game to be competitive, addicting and to stand out but not in a completely alienating way. I for once welcome relics decision.

Edit: This is what was rustling my jimmies. Although i thought it was pretty fairly obvious.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Dukenukem117 » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 12:45 pm

Umm.... what? My first post barely mentioned graphics, which I said was subjective. I explicitly stated why I thought it was dumbed down.

1) Cover is dumber than it has ever been. They could have reverted it to DoW1 with the blast craters if they didn't want to deal with pathing issues, but this VP bubble dome? Stupid as hell.

2) Suppression and positioning was a HUGE part of CoH and DoW2. It really set Relic's games apart from Starcraft and the top players from the so-so's. None of that is in the gameplay, just spam abilities.

3) Destructible terrain and garrisoning buildings knowing their LOS also added to the skill ceiling, neither are present.

4) Sync-Kills - Fan favorite, goodbye too.

Reading comprehension much?

The only thing i hear is: muh graphics and mOba in meh DoWn3''


And what's this about making it for a broader audience by getting away from everything that made Relic and 40k stand out? DoW1 was a financial success on very little development, hence all the expansion packs. XCOM2 is hardcore as hell and it sells plenty.

It will sound like im a prick but fans are retarded, all fandoms in a sense are retarded, since they obsess over something that doesn't influence their daily lives in any way expect acting like complete dumb-asses.


You're obsessing over people expressing opinions that go against your own, and you can't string together two coherent sentences to defend your position. You have just proved your own retarded fan theory.

But i digress, what i wanted to say is that fans although constantly bitchy and irrational can eat some shit and be fine in the long run, but to attract a large community of new players you need for your game to be competitive, addicting and to stand out but not in a completely alienating way.


You're forgetting that the only reason we are even having this discussion is because dedicated fans continued to support DoW2 long after the devs have moved on, just like they have added an incredible amount of modded content to DoW1. XCOM2 is flourishing because of the modding community, which is made up of all those "retarded fans". RTS games are not spread through marketing hype because casuals don't play these games competitively. Even Blizzard's massive marketing budget could not get SC2 to match the sales of D3. Casuals will buy the game for casual game modes like comp-stomp, arcade minigames like tower defense and last stand, and maybe a few ranked matches. The people who make the custom maps that draw the broader audience are those "retarded fans".
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Caeltos » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 1:35 pm

1) Cover is dumber than it has ever been. They could have reverted it to DoW1 with the blast craters if they didn't want to deal with pathing issues, but this VP bubble dome? Stupid as hell.


I can paint it in a positive light. The AoE cover system gives you a extremely clear indication if your troops are in cover or not. Whereas in DOW1, models would occasionally not be inside the cover system, and it caused confusion whereas if they recieved the benefit or not. This type of cover system isn't causing that much confusion just looking at it. Which is one of their goal to make it more clean & cut.

2) Suppression and positioning was a HUGE part of CoH and DoW2. It really set Relic's games apart from Starcraft and the top players from the so-so's. None of that is in the gameplay, just spam abilities.

Who's to say there aren't abilities/effect that will serve a similiar role? They've shown abilities and empthasize on the 'counterplay' options. For those who don't know, this is gameplay that has interaction with both players. For an ex. The new Orbital Bombardment has a mechanic that gets bigger, but slower as it stacks up kills. So you can be strategical about weither or not you can dodge it all, or if you're going to sacrifice certain units to slow it down.

Or, let's say even the controversial Gabriel Angelos leap. There's even a PvP counterplay interaction in this ability itself. The animation gives time for the opposite player to read, and adjust accordingly. Or the Terminators with their AoE swing, which has a readable animation and castbar. Again, more things seems skill-shot oriented, and allows interactions between the players, and less so about 'Click on this unit and it dies' and there's nothing your opponent can do to stop it.

Destructible terrain and garrisoning buildings knowing their LOS also added to the skill ceiling, neither are present.

Destructable terrain in Dawn of War 2 was rubbish, and never utilized. Garrisons made the game a nightmare in the competetive scene, with having Mekboys and WSE dominating the meta for a long time until people just got fed up with the garrisons, and even had them removed from the game. Most of the garrison maps were either not played, banned or not even in the map pool for the competetive scene.

4) Sync-Kills - Fan favorite, goodbye too.

Sync-Kills are cool and all, but they're not a good gameplay mechanic. They're eye-candy, and they lose their flavor quick. What we've gotten instead is more gore and violence in the combat, and I think that's a good compromise.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Atlas » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 4:40 pm

Final warning. I'm awfully tired of watching these threads devolve into garbage.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Carnevour » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:04 pm

Yeah i knew it was pointless to write since most people here only read what they want to read. Also good job on selectively quoting me out of context and addressing them individually on small parts of my post and completely ignoring on the other parts. It does make it pointless to discuss DoW3 here or in fact discuss anything. The only thing i want to see now more than DoW3 is how many of those who say they wont buy the game will actually buy the game in the end.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Toilailee » Sun 10 Jul, 2016 1:20 am

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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Torpid » Sun 10 Jul, 2016 2:44 am

Toilailee wrote:Image


Do you evolve your pikachu into raichu ASAP?

I don't even bother, I mean light orb ftw man and pikachu soooo cuuute.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Ordie » Sun 10 Jul, 2016 4:02 am

Also, if memory serves, the cartoon had Pikachu resisting evolution, cause he was fabulous the way he was. That's a courageous decision to stay yourself in the face on incredible peer pressure, and I think it deserves recognition. Here here, Pikachu.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Atlas » Sun 10 Jul, 2016 7:38 am

Pokemon is so bias towards Pikachu with all the Light Ball nonsense. Raichu is just a complete upgrade from top to bottom.

If Pokemon had real balls it would actually retire Ash from the damn anime and do something new.

Also, Pokemon GO has completed infected everyone I know with the phone to use it, Mother of god...
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby The Licking Boogyman » Sun 10 Jul, 2016 11:45 am

Let Pokémon GO take over the world, when ppl drive VR glasses on Highways and See Glumanda on the street , using the brakes like crazy, while in reality he causes a crash with atleast 121 casualties, 1281 hurt and 1569 crashed cars .... THE FUTURE IS HERE (͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Torpid » Sun 10 Jul, 2016 2:50 pm

Atlas wrote:Pokemon is so bias towards Pikachu with all the Light Ball nonsense. Raichu is just a complete upgrade from top to bottom.

If Pokemon had real balls it would actually retire Ash from the damn anime and do something new.

Also, Pokemon GO has completed infected everyone I know with the phone to use it, Mother of god...


Nobody real close to me seems to have got it so far since I'm UK and it isn't officiall released here. But I do mwahaha.

Hoever I have no data. So I'm going about unlocking my old phone and getting a new three sim with 2GB of data a month just for pokémon go :P

I hope it doesn't get released here anytime soon so I can get a really good gym started before anyone else even gets on board with it. Already got 20 pokémon just utilising the wi-fi from my house, fortunately there's a little stream a few yards back from my house which has allowed me to catch some magikarps and poliwags which I appreciate.

I just wish it had mons from the later gens too. Maybe they will be eventually released. One can hope.

And OMG I am dying for pokémon sun and moon. I NEED IT.
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Forestradio » Sun 10 Jul, 2016 3:41 pm

Atlas wrote:Also, Pokemon GO has completed infected everyone I know with the phone to use it, Mother of god...

Image
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Re: Extended Gameplay Video with Dev Commentary

Postby Toilailee » Sun 10 Jul, 2016 4:04 pm

Aww you guys went from annoying me to being totally adorable with just one picture. Pokemon really does bring people together. :) :P :twisted: 8-)
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