First ingame video (it's in German though)

Carnevour
Level 2
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed 13 May, 2015 1:01 am

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Carnevour » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 5:59 pm

hiveminion wrote:I don't understand why they're taking this risk, alienating half of their fanbase with this cartoony, over-the-top artstyle and dumbed down, immersionless gameplay, obviously to cater to a broader audience that is still most likely to ignore the game. If they do succeed in selling 40k to a wider public then kudoes to them, even if it's a diluted parody of what 40k is supposed to be.

EDIT:
Regarding the discussion of 'realism' in sci-fi etc.:

Of course you can argue that Terminators might be able to summersault because 'it's a sci-fi fantasy realm with space elves and laser beams yaddayadda', but that is a really cheap argument that goes beside the point.
Sci-fi/fantasy universes have their own realism, that is defined by their canon material. Darth Vader can't fly. Gandalf can't one-shot a balrog with his staff. You can't teleport onto the Enterprise when its shields are up. And Terminators can't jump. You are free to disregard those things, as it's all just fiction, but then you're altering the realism of the fictional universe, and creating fan-fiction. And most fan-fictions are liked a whole lot less than their original source material.


What do you mean half of the fanbase? Are we talking the DoW2 community of 1000 people? Are we talking about the DoW1 community of even smaller numbers? Apparently people forget that Relic is a company that makes video games for a living. They make their bread and butter from it. You think that they will cater to a small margin of niche audience, just to please you? If so you are delusional.
hiveminion
Level 3
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri 09 Aug, 2013 1:02 pm

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby hiveminion » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 6:16 pm

Carnevour wrote:
What do you mean half of the fanbase? Are we talking the DoW2 community of 1000 people? Are we talking about the DoW1 community of even smaller numbers? Apparently people forget that Relic is a company that makes video games for a living. They make their bread and butter from it. You think that they will cater to a small margin of niche audience, just to please you? If so you are delusional.


Obviously so far the response both here and on Youtube has been far from favorable, comparable to the Chaos Warriors DLC ragefest fiasco. I would say that the people who played DoW1 and 2 will be the main crowd playing DoW3, so catering to their wishes would have been a safe bet for Relic to take.

Like I said, if the game sells well kudoes to them. If it doesn't, this will have been a missed opportunity.
User avatar
Swift
Moderator
Posts: 2174
Joined: Wed 22 Jan, 2014 6:40 pm
Contact:

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Swift » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 6:18 pm

Arch's video was decent, but I take everything he says with a pinch of salt since he can get worked up and one sided fast.

As for the direction of the game, it does seem like Relic are hoping to cream off the people who left Starcraft and suck them in, and to be fair, it might work. As it stands, we have little to go on, but...

If people would stop ranting and start doing something about it like visiting Relic's forum, you might get listened to, and the more people who jump in with sensible ways of making your argument, you could change things. Or you can all sit and stew here, up to you.
The internal battery has run dry, the game can now be played. However, clock based events will no longer occur.
Tinibombini
Level 2
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu 25 Feb, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Tinibombini » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 6:24 pm

hiveminion wrote:
Carnevour wrote:
What do you mean half of the fanbase? Are we talking the DoW2 community of 1000 people? Are we talking about the DoW1 community of even smaller numbers? Apparently people forget that Relic is a company that makes video games for a living. They make their bread and butter from it. You think that they will cater to a small margin of niche audience, just to please you? If so you are delusional.


Obviously so far the response both here and on Youtube has been far from favorable, comparable to the Chaos Warriors DLC ragefest fiasco. I would say that the people who played DoW1 and 2 will be the main crowd playing DoW3, so catering to their wishes would have been a safe bet for Relic to take.

Like I said, if the game sells well kudoes to them. If it doesn't, this will have been a missed opportunity.


I would imagine that the fanbase Relic wouldn't want to exclude would be the broader population of 40K fans in general. That is certainly a larger group than just DOW I/II fans.
Carnevour
Level 2
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed 13 May, 2015 1:01 am

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Carnevour » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 6:28 pm

Tinibombini wrote:
hiveminion wrote:
Carnevour wrote:
What do you mean half of the fanbase? Are we talking the DoW2 community of 1000 people? Are we talking about the DoW1 community of even smaller numbers? Apparently people forget that Relic is a company that makes video games for a living. They make their bread and butter from it. You think that they will cater to a small margin of niche audience, just to please you? If so you are delusional.


Obviously so far the response both here and on Youtube has been far from favorable, comparable to the Chaos Warriors DLC ragefest fiasco. I would say that the people who played DoW1 and 2 will be the main crowd playing DoW3, so catering to their wishes would have been a safe bet for Relic to take.

Like I said, if the game sells well kudoes to them. If it doesn't, this will have been a missed opportunity.


I would imagine that the fanbase Relic wouldn't want to exclude would be the broader population of 40K fans in general. That is certainly a larger group than just DOW I/II fans.


The only people i see complain about the game is currently the hardcore fans of either dow series or the really really obsessive lore freaks. Most people are generally favourably responding to a new RTS under development.
User avatar
Ace of Swords
Level 5
Posts: 1493
Joined: Thu 14 Mar, 2013 7:49 am
Location: Terra

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Ace of Swords » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 6:45 pm

Tinibombini wrote:
hiveminion wrote:
Carnevour wrote:
What do you mean half of the fanbase? Are we talking the DoW2 community of 1000 people? Are we talking about the DoW1 community of even smaller numbers? Apparently people forget that Relic is a company that makes video games for a living. They make their bread and butter from it. You think that they will cater to a small margin of niche audience, just to please you? If so you are delusional.


Obviously so far the response both here and on Youtube has been far from favorable, comparable to the Chaos Warriors DLC ragefest fiasco. I would say that the people who played DoW1 and 2 will be the main crowd playing DoW3, so catering to their wishes would have been a safe bet for Relic to take.

Like I said, if the game sells well kudoes to them. If it doesn't, this will have been a missed opportunity.


I would imagine that the fanbase Relic wouldn't want to exclude would be the broader population of 40K fans in general. That is certainly a larger group than just DOW I/II fans.


I don't think there's a single 40k player/enthusiast that didn't play DoW1/2, generally 1 was more well received, 2 fell behind, so if anything, they are aiming to find people outside the genre.
Image
Tinibombini
Level 2
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu 25 Feb, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Tinibombini » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 6:48 pm

Ace of Swords wrote:
Tinibombini wrote:
hiveminion wrote:
Obviously so far the response both here and on Youtube has been far from favorable, comparable to the Chaos Warriors DLC ragefest fiasco. I would say that the people who played DoW1 and 2 will be the main crowd playing DoW3, so catering to their wishes would have been a safe bet for Relic to take.

Like I said, if the game sells well kudoes to them. If it doesn't, this will have been a missed opportunity.


I would imagine that the fanbase Relic wouldn't want to exclude would be the broader population of 40K fans in general. That is certainly a larger group than just DOW I/II fans.


I don't think there's a single 40k player/enthusiast that didn't play DoW1/2, generally 1 was more well received, 2 fell behind, so if anything, they are aiming to find people outside the genre.


Fair enough, but Carnevour is suggesting that fanbase is limited to the people who play DOW 1/2 right now - years and years after they have been released. There have been way more than 1000 people who were interested in DOW 2 - many have set it aside just because they have played the crap out of it.

The current population of the existing DOW I/II communities is not a good indicator of the size of the DOW I/II fanbase generally.
hiveminion
Level 3
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri 09 Aug, 2013 1:02 pm

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby hiveminion » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 6:56 pm

Swiftsabre wrote:If people would stop ranting and start doing something about it like visiting Relic's forum, you might get listened to, and the more people who jump in with sensible ways of making your argument, you could change things. Or you can all sit and stew here, up to you.


You're actually discouraging people from sharing their opinion on your own forum?

I for one am not interested in trying to steer Relic into any other direction, but I am interested in spouting my opinion here.

Carnevour wrote:The only people i see complain about the game is currently the hardcore fans of either dow series or the really really obsessive lore freaks. Most people are generally favourably responding to a new RTS under development.


I'm not sure where you're getting this from. The released footage has had, undeniably, a mixed reception. What does it even matter who dislikes and who likes it?
User avatar
Ace of Swords
Level 5
Posts: 1493
Joined: Thu 14 Mar, 2013 7:49 am
Location: Terra

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Ace of Swords » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 6:56 pm

Tinibombini wrote:
Ace of Swords wrote:
Tinibombini wrote:
I would imagine that the fanbase Relic wouldn't want to exclude would be the broader population of 40K fans in general. That is certainly a larger group than just DOW I/II fans.


I don't think there's a single 40k player/enthusiast that didn't play DoW1/2, generally 1 was more well received, 2 fell behind, so if anything, they are aiming to find people outside the genre.


Fair enough, but Carnevour is suggesting that fanbase is limited to the people who play DOW 1/2 right now - years and years after they have been released. There have been way more than 1000 people who were interested in DOW 2 - many have set it aside just because they have played the crap out of it.

The current population of the existing DOW I/II communities is not a good indicator of the size of the DOW I/II fanbase generally.


Agree, though consider and this goes for every game ever made, that the majority of people will only play the single player campaign (even right now, of the 1000 remaining players most do the last stand/sp stuff), they may enjoy the story or compstomp but not the pvp which is what keeps the game alive since it's mostly the pvp'ers that stick around for a long time, with this I'm not saying that they should cater to us, they should cater to the 40k fanbase as a whole and everywhere you go, here, youtube, twitch, random forums on the internet, there's a general consensus among the 40k fans, whenever it's collectors, video game players, RP'ers, TT players etc that the artstyle they are going for doesn't fit the universe, same problem with terminator mario angelos.


Though, I'm personally more worried about the gameplay, everything I've read so far smells of dumbing down, which I fear will lead to boring gameplay, but we'll see about that when the game is around release.
Last edited by Ace of Swords on Thu 16 Jun, 2016 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
Lulgrim
Admin
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 9:44 pm
Location: Grimdark
Contact:

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Lulgrim » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 7:00 pm

hiveminion wrote:I don't understand why they're taking this risk, alienating half of their fanbase with this cartoony, over-the-top artstyle and dumbed down, immersionless gameplay

The existing Relic–DoW fanbase is very insignificant compared to what might be gained by catching the interest of the millions of mainstream gamers. They would rather have an actual big title than sell a sequel to a comparative handful.

Swiftsabre wrote:If people would stop ranting and start doing something about it like visiting Relic's forum, you might get listened to, and the more people who jump in with sensible ways of making your argument, you could change things. Or you can all sit and stew here, up to you.

Lol wat… I guarantee they won’t redesign a pixel because of whining on a forum.

Could we just accept that some people, especially those who were specifically into DoW2, may dislike some of the design choices in DoW3, and it’s actually fine to dislike a thing just because? I don’t need a sensible argument to dislike red trousers or blue cheese, and an argument on the Internet is unlikely to change how I feel about either. As for DoW3, people who fancy what has been shown will probably continue to disagree with people who don’t fancy it, and they will keep arguing about it for now, and I don’t see the need to convert either side. Have an opinion. Knock yourself out. Just keep it civil enough.
hiveminion
Level 3
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri 09 Aug, 2013 1:02 pm

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby hiveminion » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 7:02 pm

Lulgrim wrote:
hiveminion wrote:I don't understand why they're taking this risk, alienating half of their fanbase with this cartoony, over-the-top artstyle and dumbed down, immersionless gameplay

The existing Relic–DoW fanbase is very insignificant compared to what might be gained by catching the interest of the millions of mainstream gamers. They would rather have an actual big title than sell a sequel to a comparative handful.



True enough, and most fans of the franchise will buy the game no matter what. So I guess I do understand. ;)
Gorbles
Level 3
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon 29 Sep, 2014 10:28 am

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Gorbles » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 7:57 pm

Lulgrim wrote:
hiveminion wrote:I don't understand why they're taking this risk, alienating half of their fanbase with this cartoony, over-the-top artstyle and dumbed down, immersionless gameplay

The existing Relic–DoW fanbase is very insignificant compared to what might be gained by catching the interest of the millions of mainstream gamers. They would rather have an actual big title than sell a sequel to a comparative handful.

Swiftsabre wrote:If people would stop ranting and start doing something about it like visiting Relic's forum, you might get listened to, and the more people who jump in with sensible ways of making your argument, you could change things. Or you can all sit and stew here, up to you.

Lol wat… I guarantee they won’t redesign a pixel because of whining on a forum.

Could we just accept that some people, especially those who were specifically into DoW2, may dislike some of the design choices in DoW3, and it’s actually fine to dislike a thing just because? I don’t need a sensible argument to dislike red trousers or blue cheese, and an argument on the Internet is unlikely to change how I feel about either. As for DoW3, people who fancy what has been shown will probably continue to disagree with people who don’t fancy it, and they will keep arguing about it for now, and I don’t see the need to convert either side. Have an opinion. Knock yourself out. Just keep it civil enough.

I think it's absolutely fine to dislike something, but it's problematic in that the sentiments seem to extend to being a bad / casual / child gamer for liking it.

You can not like something, and still express that in a constructive manner. No? Nobody's asking for sourced essays here I don't think (though I'm guilty of writing them!) :p
User avatar
Forestradio
Level 5
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sun 13 Oct, 2013 5:09 pm

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Forestradio » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 12:23 am

Swiftsabre wrote:If people would stop ranting and start doing something about it like visiting Relic's forum, you might get listened to, and the more people who jump in with sensible ways of making your argument, you could change things. Or you can all sit and stew here, up to you.

rofl rofl rofl
Swift I love you but just because relic made you a moderator does not mean that they will change anything based on what the community thinks, plain and simple that's not how it's going to be.

@Caeltos
Points well taken about distinguishing features and all, still you can have unique abilities set up in many different ways while keeping people happy, also Angelos kinda stands out on the battlefield as it is.
And you can have unique abilities and indicators without making it look so bright and flat and flashy... ugh.

There's also no reason to believe that the new art style means that there will be less b̶u̶g̶s̶ features or anything like units getting stuck in terrain or not responding to orders or being unresponsive, art and visuals are completely separate from the execution of game mechanics, and even if dow3 consisted solely of different colored bricks floating around the battlefield I'm willing to be there will be several major ...features that cause all kinds of problems.

Already you can see in the gameplay footage a problem that was in dow2, namely when using abilities a single model of a squad has all the animations while the other squad members stand around doing jack shit, here it is in the gameplay: https://youtu.be/93Wn7YUGaWI?t=9m27s
One terminator model is getting ready to cast the ability, wtf are the other terminators doing in the meantime, jerking off?
User avatar
Caeltos
Moderator
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 10:49 pm

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Caeltos » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 2:06 am

One terminator model is getting ready to cast the ability, wtf are the other terminators doing in the meantime, jerking off?


Early iteration of the ability i would guess, I think it was more to showcase the abilities they could pull off, not neccassarily what's going around on the scene. But that's a good eye, and something they ought to keep in the back of their mind. From first glance, if it's kept in that current state (For Multiplayer) it does seem weird looking at it (as you pointed out)- but it might cause balance complications if models are to roam free and cause seperation from the rest of the squad.

It's like something I mentioned for the Grey Knight Terminators, where the animation plays a part on the balance indirectly and the design of said unit/abilities. Obviously, the long-wind up for the ability is meant to give some sort of 'reaction time' and counterplay elements to it. Which is fantastic because it's a great PvP interaction method, which allows for enhanced micro empthasize, which people are concerned about due to lack of strategical layers being removed. Also, the cast time also influence the strength of the ability. So, what one could gather from just looking at it, is a strong AoE melee detterent - but the animation / cast bar gives the players clear and straight information on what's going to occur. However, as a drawback in it's current state - the 2 other models who are not performing the action looks abit out of place, and dull - for a short period of time. Maybe it would be more wise, if all models performed the action, but the effect only occurs once. However, that's a matter of making sure all models are in-sync to do so, and that might be problematic to ensure, without tinkering with outside effects like models being teleported to the spot, and being immune to knockdown/knockback effects (unless this is a passive effect, I have no idea)

I think those type of discussions are fair point to bring up to Relic, and maybe give them something to think about - or at least some sort of response, at least in terms of development process for them. Given it's pre-alpha, it could change of course, so nothing is set in stone. But at least the concept is given to us.
Gorbles
Level 3
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon 29 Sep, 2014 10:28 am

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Gorbles » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 9:12 am

Vanilla DoW had synced and asynced ability triggers. I didn't do much investigation into DoW II but going on stuff like Catachans / Cultists vs. single-entity abilities I presume the same functionality is present there.

Would expect that kind of flexibility to happen in DoW III as well. Definitely something to keep in mind, but I'm very going that going on both past games that won't end up being a problem.
Arbit
Level 3
Posts: 357
Joined: Tue 28 May, 2013 10:00 pm

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Arbit » Fri 17 Jun, 2016 5:05 pm

I just watched some of the gameplay video.

Setting aside whether I like the aesthetic of the new art design, I'd say it's not achieving its goal of making the game more readable.

If you look at a game like Starcraft 2, its art style definitely helps it be readable, but I'd say readability in large part comes down to the interface and how the units interact. Units in Starcraft 2 tend to clump up and either sit around and shoot or kite. If you bound select them, giant green health bars appear over your units. That makes it very easy to distinguish between your opponent's forces and your own - your eye can quickly assess your overall fighting strength by literally just looking at how big your blob is how many floating green health bars there are.

DoW2's problem with readability has always been that units do not neatly move around in clumps and get meat-grindered down on a discrete, single-unit basis. The squad mechanic makes your overall strength harder assess because it matters not just that you're losing models, but it's also critically important where those models are dying. If you lose 4 out of 10 models in SC2, you've lost 40% of your stuff. Easy. In DoW2, you need to know which unit took those losses, because if all 4 model losses came from one shoota squad then you are in some deep shit. Units also run around and seek cover, and, most importantly, when they fight in melee they effectively blend into your opponent's units. That's what makes DoW2 combat hard to read at a glance.

Making everything chrome and shiny, and making the animations all bouncy and exuberant DOES NOT FUCKING ALLEVIATE THIS PROBLEM. AT ALL. My eyes are still flitting all over the screen during those gameplay videos trying to figure out what in the hell is going on. The only reason anything looks clear is because the space marines are just effortlessly butchering every eldar unit they come upon. It is still confusing as fuck trying to keep track of overall force strength when ASM are engaging in melee and there are multiple other firefights going on. Angelos is easy to read because he is a single unit entity and is bouncing around like a moron - the eldar player that has their banshee squad flung all over the goddamn map by him will not have that benefit.

What they needed to do was create an interface that makes it easy to tell where your forces are and their condition i.e. clear status bars that indicate their health and model count (one of the DoW2 campaigns actually showed little green silhouettes for each living model in a squad... why this never made it into MP I'll never understand). You could communicate this with bold outlines and larger unit banners with more information. Making everything look like chrome barf and giving everything exaggerated MOBA-style animations does not help. I KNOW that my units are fighting in DoW2 - the issue is that it's a confusing brawl that's made even more unreadable by a Byzantine system of armor and damage types.

And in case you can't tell, no, I do not like the aesthetic of the new art design.
My 1v1 map - Imperial Plaza. Revisions are in progress so please check it out and give feedback!
User avatar
INSEKT
Level 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue 12 May, 2015 3:04 pm

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby INSEKT » Sat 18 Jun, 2016 11:28 am

About jumping terminators and Super Gabe Bro... hmm, if I remember, Eldars mostly was swift and agile but usually weak, while Space Marines was slow and ponderous but really hardy. When we look from gameplay side, this was the major difference between these races, and makes them various.
If Space Marines are now swift and agile too, what will be main characteristics for Eldar?

About graphics. I remember quality jump between DoW1 and DoW2. After 8 years I was hoped for great, realistic graphic based on the capabilities of current computers, and what I see is cartoon/MOBA style graphic. Someone may like it, because it is trendy - OK. But remember that games like DotA2, Starcraft 2 or HotS are few years old. If they would be released at 2017, they propably would looks far better (if you like comparing it to MOBAs, do it with new games, Paragon for example).
For me, at this moment DoW3 looks like new studio low-budget or F2P game (just like DotA2, HotS, etc.), and it does not fit the current standards. I demand more from game which is not F2P, and is released in 2017. Taking pattern from succesfull games mentioned before is not bad, but developers should mix these good things with new technologies and posibilities, and of course their own ideas. Now I feel like they are just taking step back, blindly copying everything they can.

I will buy the game for sure, and I hope I will spend in it dozens, not only few hours :)
Sorry for my english, I am still learning :)
DandyFrontline
Level 3
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri 31 Jan, 2014 12:04 am

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby DandyFrontline » Sat 18 Jun, 2016 3:13 pm

INSEKT wrote:About jumping terminators and Super Gabe Bro... hmm, if I remember, Eldars mostly was swift and agile but usually weak, while Space Marines was slow and ponderous but really hardy. When we look from gameplay side, this was the major difference between these races, and makes them various.
If Space Marines are now swift and agile too, what will be main characteristics for Eldar?

About graphics. I remember quality jump between DoW1 and DoW2. After 8 years I was hoped for great, realistic graphic based on the capabilities of current computers, and what I see is cartoon/MOBA style graphic. Someone may like it, because it is trendy - OK. But remember that games like DotA2, Starcraft 2 or HotS are few years old. If they would be released at 2017, they propably would looks far better (if you like comparing it to MOBAs, do it with new games, Paragon for example).
For me, at this moment DoW3 looks like new studio low-budget or F2P game (just like DotA2, HotS, etc.), and it does not fit the current standards. I demand more from game which is not F2P, and is released in 2017. Taking pattern from succesfull games mentioned before is not bad, but developers should mix these good things with new technologies and posibilities, and of course their own ideas. Now I feel like they are just taking step back, blindly copying everything they can.

I will buy the game for sure, and I hope I will spend in it dozens, not only few hours :)


Well, its easy to balance it even with the same speed for both factions like: SM - tuff, expensive, lots of firepower; Eldars - weak in terms of HP, lots of infiltration and teleport abilities, lots of control abilities.

And yea, everything that left from Relic is its name. As far as i know all old good programmers left the company, at their place came new incompetent ppl who ruined CoH and now doing the same with DoW.
Gorbles
Level 3
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon 29 Sep, 2014 10:28 am

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Gorbles » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 4:48 pm

DoW 1 had a mostly different team to CoH that had a moderately different team from DoW II. And that's not getting started on Homeworld, the Outfit or Space Marine.

Games development has a large turnover rate. There are definitely people at Relic who have been there since the beginning, but by and large a lot of new people are drafted for every new project.

Making up things just to suit which games you like less is just funny, really.
User avatar
Ace of Swords
Level 5
Posts: 1493
Joined: Thu 14 Mar, 2013 7:49 am
Location: Terra

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Ace of Swords » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 5:08 pm

Gorb wrote:DoW 1 had a mostly different team to CoH that had a moderately different team from DoW II. And that's not getting started on Homeworld, the Outfit or Space Marine.

Games development has a large turnover rate. There are definitely people at Relic who have been there since the beginning, but by and large a lot of new people are drafted for every new project.

Making up things just to suit which games you like less is just funny, really.


I would be very interested in seeing a complete list of when developers joined/left Relic and on what games they worked on and what role they covered in the team.

Can you post it?
Image
Gorbles
Level 3
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon 29 Sep, 2014 10:28 am

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Gorbles » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 7:21 pm

I'm not an employee, and certainly not one who'd know the staff roster. All I know are individual folk. A lot of people remember Jay Wilson; he worked on a lot of the core vDoW design before moving to Blizzard. Johnny Ebbert moved up the design ranks through vDoW before leading vDoW II. Quinn Duffy; one of the CoH 2 leads; he's been at Relic since the Homeworld days. Raphael van Lierop was one of the leads on Space Marine; he left and founded his own studio that currently works on a survival sandbox game called The Long Dark.

Those are some key examples that should perhaps give people pause before going "well the team changed here because the games after then were bad". I was mostly familiar with the DoW II lot, and most of them were let go through no fault of their own during the THQ dissolution.
User avatar
MaxPower
Contributor
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon 11 Feb, 2013 10:18 pm
Location: Leipzig

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby MaxPower » Sun 19 Jun, 2016 9:03 pm

I think im with Nurland on this one, cause even though i really didnt like the artstyle at first its growing on me (would still prefer a somewhat more "realistic" approach). But they should really alter some of the animations, especially the Gabriel Angelos somersault and the lack of weight to some of the attacks and the units in general.

And yes the game might turn out to be good or bad, but we just don't know it until we've laid our hands on the product and I'll reserve judgement until I've actually played it myself.

Maybe some other guys on this forum should do the same before they condemn the game as utter bullshit and such.
"A fortress is built with blood and toil. Only by blood and toil may it be taken." Leman Russ
User avatar
appiah4
Level 3
Posts: 275
Joined: Fri 06 Dec, 2013 7:30 am

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby appiah4 » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 2:00 pm

What ruined COH2 wasn't Relic's incompetence as a developer. That's not to say Relic still retains the staff quality of its Homeworld/COH days (most probably doesn't). It just means their THQ bankruptcy trauma has left them a lot more conservative and conformist, they have adopted to the release and cash in on DLC model. They tried it with COH2 and it backfired because their core market hates that shit. Now they are trying to cash in on that model in a market they know will be suckers for it, the MOBA crowd.
ALWAYS ANGRY!! ALL THE TIME!!
Gorbles
Level 3
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon 29 Sep, 2014 10:28 am

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Gorbles » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 2:22 pm

The funny thing is the Homeworld crowd didn't like the DoW crowd. The DoW crowd didn't like the CoH crowd, and now we're going in weird semi-circles with DoW II fans panning DoW 1 and CoH fans panning everything :D

All you're doing is trying to justify the products you like by claiming everything else sucks for <reasons>. Other iterations of the Relic fan community will do the same for CoH, or DoW 1, or whatever.

(also, poor Impossible Creatures. That never gets a shout-out)
User avatar
Ace of Swords
Level 5
Posts: 1493
Joined: Thu 14 Mar, 2013 7:49 am
Location: Terra

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Ace of Swords » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 2:47 pm

Gorb wrote:The funny thing is the Homeworld crowd didn't like the DoW crowd. The DoW crowd didn't like the CoH crowd, and now we're going in weird semi-circles with DoW II fans panning DoW 1 and CoH fans panning everything :D

All you're doing is trying to justify the products you like by claiming everything else sucks for <reasons>. Other iterations of the Relic fan community will do the same for CoH, or DoW 1, or whatever.

(also, poor Impossible Creatures. That never gets a shout-out)


wat, literally everyone who plays coh1/2 has played dow1/2 and is hoping for dow3 to not suck and homeworld is generally recognized as one of the best RTS and best story for RTS by fans of the genre globally.
Image
User avatar
appiah4
Level 3
Posts: 275
Joined: Fri 06 Dec, 2013 7:30 am

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby appiah4 » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 2:58 pm

Gorb wrote:The funny thing is the Homeworld crowd didn't like the DoW crowd. The DoW crowd didn't like the CoH crowd, and now we're going in weird semi-circles with DoW II fans panning DoW 1 and CoH fans panning everything :D

All you're doing is trying to justify the products you like by claiming everything else sucks for <reasons>. Other iterations of the Relic fan community will do the same for CoH, or DoW 1, or whatever.

(also, poor Impossible Creatures. That never gets a shout-out)


This is not true at all in my experience. My experience and observation is that the fanbase of Relic who liked Homeworld also loved COH and DOW 2. These people really liked the tactical experience and map control based gameplay that Relic really excels at.

There is a completely distinct fanbase that really liked DOW1 but were really alienated by the other games. These people tend to like more traditional RTSs with base building and death blobs, bigger scale and streamlined combat (all of which Relic never did better than other offerings out there, the games mostly sold on the merit of being 40K).

So it's not a case of everyone hating everything that came after, it's actually people who like most of Relic's other games hating DOW1, and DOW1 players largely hating everything else Relic ever made.
ALWAYS ANGRY!! ALL THE TIME!!
Gorbles
Level 3
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon 29 Sep, 2014 10:28 am

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Gorbles » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 4:43 pm

Ace of Swords wrote:
Gorb wrote:The funny thing is the Homeworld crowd didn't like the DoW crowd. The DoW crowd didn't like the CoH crowd, and now we're going in weird semi-circles with DoW II fans panning DoW 1 and CoH fans panning everything :D

All you're doing is trying to justify the products you like by claiming everything else sucks for <reasons>. Other iterations of the Relic fan community will do the same for CoH, or DoW 1, or whatever.

(also, poor Impossible Creatures. That never gets a shout-out)

wat, literally everyone who plays coh1/2 has played dow1/2 and is hoping for dow3 to not suck and homeworld is generally recognized as one of the best RTS and best story for RTS by fans of the genre globally.

I deliberately didn't comment on the reception of the games. This was the reception of the fanbase for those games, and how they viewed each other.

appiah4 wrote:This is not true at all in my experience. My experience and observation is that the fanbase of Relic who liked Homeworld also loved COH and DOW 2. These people really liked the tactical experience and map control based gameplay that Relic really excels at.

There is a completely distinct fanbase that really liked DOW1 but were really alienated by the other games. These people tend to like more traditional RTSs with base building and death blobs, bigger scale and streamlined combat (all of which Relic never did better than other offerings out there, the games mostly sold on the merit of being 40K).

So it's not a case of everyone hating everything that came after, it's actually people who like most of Relic's other games hating DOW1, and DOW1 players largely hating everything else Relic ever made.

Yeah, I concede that this will vary dramatically between fan communities. RelicNews was always one of the larger ones, which is where I'm from, but I was never on dow.de (not being German didn't really help) or even GameReplays back in its heyday.

Good observations really; DoW 1 was definitely the closest to classic RTS design.
User avatar
Ace of Swords
Level 5
Posts: 1493
Joined: Thu 14 Mar, 2013 7:49 am
Location: Terra

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Ace of Swords » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 4:48 pm

Gorb wrote:
Ace of Swords wrote:
Gorb wrote:The funny thing is the Homeworld crowd didn't like the DoW crowd. The DoW crowd didn't like the CoH crowd, and now we're going in weird semi-circles with DoW II fans panning DoW 1 and CoH fans panning everything :D

All you're doing is trying to justify the products you like by claiming everything else sucks for <reasons>. Other iterations of the Relic fan community will do the same for CoH, or DoW 1, or whatever.

(also, poor Impossible Creatures. That never gets a shout-out)
wat, literally everyone who plays coh1/2 has played dow1/2 and is hoping for dow3 to not suck and homeworld is generally recognized as one of the best RTS and best story for RTS by fans of the genre globally.

I deliberately didn't comment on the reception of the games. This was the reception of the fanbase for those games, and how they viewed each other.



And I'm telling you how the fanbases acted, coh players like the dow games but didn't stick around much because they are more interested in the historic setting, less the other way around but still many dow fans played the coh games and liked them, homeworld has been well received by everyone though the HM1 fans didn't like the second game because of the lack of formations.
Image
Gorbles
Level 3
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon 29 Sep, 2014 10:28 am

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Gorbles » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 5:41 pm

Yeah, you still missed my point. No matter though, as appiah rightly pointed out it's a bit more complex than what I was saying.
User avatar
Ace of Swords
Level 5
Posts: 1493
Joined: Thu 14 Mar, 2013 7:49 am
Location: Terra

Re: First ingame video (it's in German though)

Postby Ace of Swords » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 5:44 pm

Gorb wrote:Yeah, you still missed my point. No matter though, as appiah rightly pointed out it's a bit more complex than what I was saying.


I haven't missed the point you literally said X crowd didn't like Y crowd which is simply untrue the only case that is somewhat comparable are DoW1 players with dow2, since the game changed greatly many didn't like the new playstyle, some did, many didn't, but there's never been hate between communities.
Image

Return to “General Discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests