Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

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Mngwa
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Mngwa » Mon 18 Aug, 2014 4:49 pm

Good-looking stuff.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Mngwa » Sat 23 Aug, 2014 2:52 pm

So, I wanted to talk about what kind of models for the dark eldar units could be done.

That Dark Eldar warrior looks great and it was made from a guardian, apparently, so that is an obvious answer. This goes for trueborn as well.

For other units, wyches are best made from another female-melee squad already in the game, the banshees. Main modifications should be on the swords (wyches use more like daggers or these weird, punch-knives, or flails) and the head (banshees have the flowing manes and while wyches are known for a lot of hair, they are more often braided). Another thing that would be interesting is the possibility of male wyches. Male banshees are not unheard of although quite rare, and in addition they wouldn't be as easily recognized since they wear full-body armour. Male wyches are definitely in the lore, have their artwork, have TT-miniatures.
I don't know is it possible to make variations to the models even though they remain with same stats, it would be kind of neat to have a wych-squad with gender variety of 50-50. Since I don't think that is possible (tell me if I am wrong there), if the wyches have access to special weapon-upgrades, the models that wear them could be changed to be male for some variety.
One visual thing I really like in RTS-games with squads is multiple kinds of characters inside one unit, like in a fully upgraded shoota-boy squad with three regular guys, two with special weapons and then the big nob.


For mandrakes, I hadn't thought much but I read from the thread linked above (the one with the warrior-skin) had a great suggestion for them. The rangers wielding swords (that even look like power swords from the banshees for some reason) would work great for them. The mandrakes seem to be always a little crouched, and with the ranger-animations, they would even have a sync-kill. Their clothing is slightly similar to what the ranger-model has, they would just need to be bare-chested and have some hair added in, as well as some modifications to make the swords look more crude or curved (like sickles!)

For scourges, my idea was first about the autarch. And it could work, especially the sword-pistol-stance for a solarite. But I figured that another great source would be the warp spiders. Their jump-generators would have to be removed and the deathspinner could be modified for a good dark lance/splinter cannon/heat lance (Their animations could also be used for a kabalite warrior with a heavy weapon as well?). For the other, smaller weapons (haywire blaster or regular blaster, and the shardcarbine) either the same model as above or one from guardians or the autarch with a fusion gun.
The wings would have to be added, maybe some flapping effect when they fly (the swooping hawk-wings on the autarch are pretty immobile when she jumps, but they aren't actually a part of her body!).

Wracks have some options, and my suggestion is:
Standard heretics mixed with the word bearers-DLC ones. The lower part could be kind of a skirt that the regular heretic has, while they could have the head and body (sleeveless hands...) for the upper part as their base. The pistol should be removed and maybe replaced with a smaller sword, but since the heretics don't even have an animation for shooting it, it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Grotesques, they have two units that would be quite similar to them and who could be used as their base. Ork Nobs and Ogryns. Grotesques don't really have two-handed weapons, so one good base could be the slugga-nob, or maybe the kommando nob with the knife.
But some kind of ogryn-copies could also be used, if they had some weapon-changes.

The incubi would be the last infantry unit. They would be quite tricky because of the klaives. A warlock seems like a good base (the robe would have to be removed though), but the weapons they wield are more like two-handed swords that also function as axes and halberds, so...
Mixing up the animations with the spear and the sword of the warlock/seer council seems like a way to go, but out of all the infantry, the incubi will probably require the most work (maybe along with scourge-wings and grotesques).


The vehicles would be the toughest thing, since they have little in common with anything already in the game. That would have to be left for someone quite talented. The Talos (or Chronos) included.

For hero units, the archon has plenty of different options. Even the farseer could work. Some new weapons could be done. A whip could use its own animations but I think it could be pulled off with minimal changes to sword-swings.
The haemonculus also has plenty of options. My first thought was a librarian or a sorcerer, but I could see them based on a farseer or a warlock, or even a commissar lord!



Thoughts and suggestions on these are welcome.

And again, I am not expecting Dark Eldar to be implemented very shortly, but I hope my ideas/rambling can give the developers of the Elite Mod some thoughts on how to create this race.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Swift » Sat 23 Aug, 2014 5:40 pm

Yeah again, a lot of thought is appreciated but you are rushing ahead, you haven't considered that these units might not be in the game. Please refrain from things like models and animations until we have a full list drawn out (which can't happen until we have discussed how Dark Eldar work).

I know I am the negative one, but I love Dark Eldar and would hate to see someone wasting their time by rushing ahead.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Caeltos » Sat 23 Aug, 2014 5:53 pm

Image

Dark Eldar Kabalite Warrior are finished.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Mngwa » Sat 23 Aug, 2014 6:13 pm

Swiftsabre wrote:Yeah again, a lot of thought is appreciated but you are rushing ahead, you haven't considered that these units might not be in the game. Please refrain from things like models and animations until we have a full list drawn out (which can't happen until we have discussed how Dark Eldar work).

I know I am the negative one, but I love Dark Eldar and would hate to see someone wasting their time by rushing ahead.

I do know this, and I am not animating any full models (and won't, since I am not a part of the development team)^^ Just throwing ideas around, I know fully well that not all of the suggestions I have given may not going to be around.



...also, awesome look on the warriors.

Caeltos wrote:Image

Dark Eldar Kabalite Warrior are finished.

Red is a nice choice for splinters. I don't think I would have had any preference but I sometimes have imagined them sort of like as white traces with slight green tinges.

The loincloths look pretty nice, maybe too long though. That one guy looks like he is trying to trip the other one by keeping a foot on it!
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby ChrisNihilus » Sat 23 Aug, 2014 10:08 pm

Image

Amazing.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Wise Windu » Sat 23 Aug, 2014 10:17 pm

Yeah, Shuma's really great at this. He says he'll be doing models for the Warlock next, whatever the DE equivalent of that will be.

edit: Oh right, the Archon
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Swift » Sat 23 Aug, 2014 11:38 pm

Yeah mate, real DE nerds here. 8-) Fantastic.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Caeltos » Sun 24 Aug, 2014 12:28 am

The Dark Eldar vehicles will be really really difficult tho. I'm not quite sure on what to do on that end. Wise, Sterling - anyone got any ideas at all?
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Wise Windu » Sun 24 Aug, 2014 1:00 am

Well, Shuma said he was probably going to make a whole race of them eventually, since in the beginning it'll just be replacers for Eldar. So I imagine he'll do some vehicles. Some of the Falcon/Prism animations could be recycled or recolored to make animations for a Raider or Venom or something.

And then those could probably be altered slightly to make other DE grav tank variants like these: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_El ... _kpZvldWa8

They wouldn't be really simple changes, but it could probably be done since the animations would be similar.

edit: didn't Caid actually make a Vyper? Seems like it might be feasible to change that into a Venom. Not sure though.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Caeltos » Sun 24 Aug, 2014 4:38 am

I actually PM'd shuma about Dark Eldars, and he is going to do the Dark Eldar stuff. What he decides to ship in as content for the Dark Eldar is entirely up to him tho.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Wise Windu » Sun 24 Aug, 2014 4:43 am

Yeah, I think he mentioned a DE raider in one of his posts. But you're right, it will all be up to him in the end.

edit: not necessarily a raider, but yeah: "The biggest problem would be their pirate boat tanks, so i make no promises about making any of the Dark Eldar that need new animations, but i might. Also at the start i'm not going to make any custom animations for the Dark Eldar, once i'm done with the normal eldar i'll make some custom animations for the DE, starting with custom animations for their heavy weapons and stuff, i also want to try making animations for a whip for the Archon."
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Mngwa » Sun 24 Aug, 2014 10:40 am

Slightly off-topic, but...
Image
Saim-Hann Elite-scheme?



So yeah, the vehicles would definitely be the toughest thing to do. The venom has somewhat a similar shape to the falcon/fire prism (and more so to the vyper), but the raider/ravager doesn't. The base for the "pirate-boat" shouldn't be too complicated though.
(image from GWs website:)
Image
(The sprue has the four biggest parts for the raider)
The basic structure is still pretty simple, mostly there would just be a lot of random stuff like sails, railings, spikes! and possibly the crew.
The venom would have a lot of curves as well as an actual cockpit.

It wouldn't be the first open topped vehicle in DoW2 (retribution) though, since the ork trukk already has the two crew in it.
And all the more hilarious to watch a raider explode if there is a steersman there who is engulfed flames.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Swift » Sun 24 Aug, 2014 10:56 am

That wouldn't be an Elite scheme, more a Saim-Hann Shuma scheme.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Mngwa » Sun 24 Aug, 2014 11:35 am

Swiftsabre wrote:That wouldn't be an Elite scheme, more a Saim-Hann Shuma scheme.



Of course ^^

I don't know exactly who made any of the schemes who are currently in elite, but I just meant that eldar don't have any.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby sterling » Sun 24 Aug, 2014 12:53 pm

I put the schemes together primarily using custom models made by Shuma and others plus kitbashing some of my own. Me and Windu have been working on a Harlequin elite scheme and with Shuma doing Saim-Hann and Exodites eldar will get some love in the near future.
New models for Elite and Retribution...
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby David-CZ » Sun 21 Sep, 2014 7:12 pm

Does anyone know what the purpose of .../sbps/pvp/race_.../troops/ap_....rbf is? (substitute ... for race/unit name).

I'm asking because I finally figured out how to make each unit of a squad use a different model. Even though someone must have found that out a long time ago I never found and answer until now.

The problem is that the models are shown in game but not in the the army painter. I suspect the ap_....rbf file might have something to do with it.

@sterling:
Sorry about my absence in the past month or so. I promise I'll finish the Death Jester as fast as I can.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Swift » Sun 21 Sep, 2014 8:26 pm

I can't help you but yes, the new mark models don't show up in the army painter yet appear in game.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby David-CZ » Sun 21 Sep, 2014 9:57 pm

New mark models? I've never had a problem when replacing models. So is this an issue with newly added stuff?
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby sterling » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 11:33 pm

No worries David - been having PC issues myself but hopefully should be up and running soon (been waiting on new parts).

Got any images of what you've come up with so far for a preview perhaps?

Cheers
New models for Elite and Retribution...
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby ImperatoreXx » Tue 23 Sep, 2014 2:28 pm

Great job for the dark eldar! I hope as soon as possible! Instead, for Tau, Necron and sister of battle?
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Mngwa » Tue 23 Sep, 2014 3:49 pm

Indeed, I am also interested what other factions do you have plans for!

I want DE in the game but I can understand if you are thinking about Tau first. And I would love to see them in as well.

Heck, if you make a kroot-commander, I would play Tau half the time I play Elite.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Wise Windu » Tue 23 Sep, 2014 3:58 pm

I think at the moment, there aren't enough available models to make any other full races.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Wise Windu » Thu 25 Sep, 2014 1:08 am

David-CZ wrote:Does anyone know what the purpose of .../sbps/pvp/race_.../troops/ap_....rbf is? (substitute ... for race/unit name).

I'm asking because I finally figured out how to make each unit of a squad use a different model. Even though someone must have found that out a long time ago I never found and answer until now.

The problem is that the models are shown in game but not in the the army painter. I suspect the ap_....rbf file might have something to do with it.

They are most likely models specifically used for the army painter. I actually just found (again :P) the location of the models used in the army painter, and the ap_ files do show up whenever there is a unit that has an ap_ file. You can change which models are used in the Army painter by changing the tuning>tuning_info.rbf and in there, ui>army_painter_units_lists and change the lists to represent your model. The lists use the sbps files, so changing the squad_loadout in the sbps file can work too. A lot of squad leaders use this method to be shown in the Painter.

This is why some models don't show Elite schemes, so I'll probably change that soon. The IG stormtrooper model even uses the campaign version of the model :/
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Mngwa » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 10:04 pm

Wise Windu wrote:Archon

Image

...
...

Sorry, I had to collect my jaw from the ground.
And I think my eyes slightly went out of their sockets as well.
:D
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Swift » Sun 28 Sep, 2014 9:06 am

I have to agree with Mngwa

...

Wow. I always liked Dark Eldar but this is just... :D
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby viggih » Sun 28 Sep, 2014 8:09 pm

Sweet God-Emperor... that thing is licking it's lips,staring at my soul, and it's not even looking at me.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Caeltos » Thu 02 Oct, 2014 12:21 pm

Image

Dark Archon is finished now. Shuma is da bozz.
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Re: Dark Eldar as a new race? Suggestion thread

Postby Superhooper01 » Thu 02 Oct, 2014 12:43 pm

Wow just wow will be sweet to use. I thirst for violence!
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