DOW2 Necrons Plan for Retail and Elite
Posted: Wed 16 Dec, 2020 7:02 am
Hey everyone,
I'm interested in creating a project that draws people to both Retail and Elite Dawn of War 2. Played for 9ish years, average player (not Torpid). I also played tabeltop 40k since early 4th Edtion and got into it because of Necrons.
I think Retail DOW2 is incredibly fun. I have some issues with it, but its a game I still appreciate.
While many players eventually find issues with Retail's balance, I think a good mod that is just Retail+New Race can be good for the game, easy for casual players to switch to temporarily for fun. Or it could be a mod with all other new races, but designed to work with retail balance (so Grey Knights too etc.).
New races can draw interest, new players can end up enjoying the rest of the game too, Retail and/or Elite Mod. I definitely used to play a balance of each, but now play mostly retail as its easier to remember/learn.
The Mod could also implement bugfixes so that its better than Retail in that way.
Each new race is very difficult to make. I saw the posts saying we have some (few) Necron models. I like the idea of using the Dark Crusade models for a base and learning to texture them in Dawn of War 2. I'm interested in learning modding and animation.
I wanted to organize this post with 3 main ideas:
1. Difficulty with models and animations
-how much can we draw from existing sources, how hard is it to learn. Applying animation skeletons to textures etc.
-how much time people have/interest
2. Game Design:
-I want Necrons balanced for retail, as to release a mod that is just Retail+other races that are approximately balanced for it.
-players familiar with retail find it more comfortable to come back to. New content can bring them back to the game. And then maybe bring them into elite
3. Ownership/control issues:
-other people can use the models/textures we create
-I'd try to find a group to work on balance, I only know retail, so Elite mod players could adapt it if they want it.
-Goal is use Dark Crusade Models, and keep unit list relatively tame to fit in with Retail
-If people disagree on balance that's ok, we can adjust it
Game Design Outline: (personal preferences here).
-I made a rough outline of what I imagine as a balance-able race for retail Necrons would look like
-its based on lore from dark crusade Necrons, I particularly loved the 4th edition codex as well, I think gameplay Necron's are interesting in later editions too, just I'm interested in making more Dark Crusade -esue Necrons.
-gameplay wise, I want Necrons to be a team that benefits from grouping together, with most units focusing either on ranged or melee.
Tier 1:
Necron Warriors: slow, basic range, resilient, average damage, maybe tier 2 slight vehicle damage.
Scarabs: basic melee, average damage, not resistant to fire, fast.
Flayed Ones: slow, infiltrate, teleporting are options, debuff aura for fear on upgrade maybe.
Wraith: squad of 1 or 3? could be like raveners or assault marines. maybe phase shift. anti suppression.
Tier 2:
Tomb Spyder: vehicle, heavy melee, heals infantry?, reinforce? can purchase a gun
Destroyer: Vehicle or superheavy infantry, fast, can be tied up in melee, damage type anti infantry?
Immortals: heavy infantry, suppression team that does anti vehicle damage (doesn't hurt infantry much but suppresses them). decent melee.
Tier 3: -(Maybe C'Tan as well)
Heavy Destroyer: vehicle or super heavy infantry, fast, high anti armor damage/slows vehicles
Pariahs: power or upgrade heavy melee, active ability suppresses one squad at medium range.
Monolith: Superheavy: slow, can teleport short distances, can pull limited necron infantry (or just warriors etc.) to it by teleporting them. 4 Smaller guns do dmg vs all units, main gun does AOE damage. Average superheavy health (relies on teleport).
Hero ideas: Necron Lord, Pariah Lord, Destroyer Lord -I want input on the ideas for heroes, Pariah is based on the campaign in Dark Crusade
Necron Lord: -not sure on base ability, leaning towards teleport
-resurrection orb, heals Necrons, active.
-solar pulse (like warp spider shimmer orb)
-abilities to teleport allies, or slow enemies
-splash damage in melee (lightning field)
-warscythe power/heavy melee option
-anything, other people might have clearer ideas.
Pariah Lord (The First Pariah):
-lore of Pariah's is that they carry an anti-psyker gene, a lack of a soul that hurts psykers.
-base starts with power weapon that slows, lower base damage than other melee heroes (only better vs non power weapon heroes).
-medium range abilities to slow or drain enemy units.
-no mobility but abilities provide defense
-doesn't directly help allies
Destroyer Lord:
-destroys cover, can't benefit from cover, ranged hero, builds turrets
-has lower damage than the techmarine and plague champion, higher health but can't benefit from cover
-turrets could be weaker or equal, not sure
-can become faster with upgrades
-can improve armor with upgrades?
-abilities could improve allied vehicles, maybe an aura for destoyers
-weapon upgrades could be expensive but give moderate damage, not sure if given melee upgrade (it would be a warscythe probably).
-can upgrade mobility to move faster
-could slightly increase allies speed with an upgrade (one that upgrades his own speed, one that upgrades others, mutually exclusive)
Ideas for Global, and C'Tan considerations (C'Tan could also be tier 3):
500 Nuke Ideas:
-any generic nuke ideas
-a building eruption style nuke like the Tyranids
-a recolor
Other abilities could involve:
deep strike flayed ones
building or turret call ins
C'Tan call in unit like a Venerable Dreadnought type thing. Unit Cost also. Tier 3.
Slow an enemy champion (Pariah)
Damage AOE
Lightning Field (improve melee damage of a squad)
Solar Pulse (make it a global shimmer orb).
Veil of Darkness (infiltrates a unit)
Increase vehicle damage
For anyone interested just let me know if these goals seem realistic.
I'm interested in creating a project that draws people to both Retail and Elite Dawn of War 2. Played for 9ish years, average player (not Torpid). I also played tabeltop 40k since early 4th Edtion and got into it because of Necrons.
I think Retail DOW2 is incredibly fun. I have some issues with it, but its a game I still appreciate.
While many players eventually find issues with Retail's balance, I think a good mod that is just Retail+New Race can be good for the game, easy for casual players to switch to temporarily for fun. Or it could be a mod with all other new races, but designed to work with retail balance (so Grey Knights too etc.).
New races can draw interest, new players can end up enjoying the rest of the game too, Retail and/or Elite Mod. I definitely used to play a balance of each, but now play mostly retail as its easier to remember/learn.
The Mod could also implement bugfixes so that its better than Retail in that way.
Each new race is very difficult to make. I saw the posts saying we have some (few) Necron models. I like the idea of using the Dark Crusade models for a base and learning to texture them in Dawn of War 2. I'm interested in learning modding and animation.
I wanted to organize this post with 3 main ideas:
1. Difficulty with models and animations
-how much can we draw from existing sources, how hard is it to learn. Applying animation skeletons to textures etc.
-how much time people have/interest
2. Game Design:
-I want Necrons balanced for retail, as to release a mod that is just Retail+other races that are approximately balanced for it.
-players familiar with retail find it more comfortable to come back to. New content can bring them back to the game. And then maybe bring them into elite
3. Ownership/control issues:
-other people can use the models/textures we create
-I'd try to find a group to work on balance, I only know retail, so Elite mod players could adapt it if they want it.
-Goal is use Dark Crusade Models, and keep unit list relatively tame to fit in with Retail
-If people disagree on balance that's ok, we can adjust it
Game Design Outline: (personal preferences here).
-I made a rough outline of what I imagine as a balance-able race for retail Necrons would look like
-its based on lore from dark crusade Necrons, I particularly loved the 4th edition codex as well, I think gameplay Necron's are interesting in later editions too, just I'm interested in making more Dark Crusade -esue Necrons.
-gameplay wise, I want Necrons to be a team that benefits from grouping together, with most units focusing either on ranged or melee.
Tier 1:
Necron Warriors: slow, basic range, resilient, average damage, maybe tier 2 slight vehicle damage.
Scarabs: basic melee, average damage, not resistant to fire, fast.
Flayed Ones: slow, infiltrate, teleporting are options, debuff aura for fear on upgrade maybe.
Wraith: squad of 1 or 3? could be like raveners or assault marines. maybe phase shift. anti suppression.
Tier 2:
Tomb Spyder: vehicle, heavy melee, heals infantry?, reinforce? can purchase a gun
Destroyer: Vehicle or superheavy infantry, fast, can be tied up in melee, damage type anti infantry?
Immortals: heavy infantry, suppression team that does anti vehicle damage (doesn't hurt infantry much but suppresses them). decent melee.
Tier 3: -(Maybe C'Tan as well)
Heavy Destroyer: vehicle or super heavy infantry, fast, high anti armor damage/slows vehicles
Pariahs: power or upgrade heavy melee, active ability suppresses one squad at medium range.
Monolith: Superheavy: slow, can teleport short distances, can pull limited necron infantry (or just warriors etc.) to it by teleporting them. 4 Smaller guns do dmg vs all units, main gun does AOE damage. Average superheavy health (relies on teleport).
Hero ideas: Necron Lord, Pariah Lord, Destroyer Lord -I want input on the ideas for heroes, Pariah is based on the campaign in Dark Crusade
Necron Lord: -not sure on base ability, leaning towards teleport
-resurrection orb, heals Necrons, active.
-solar pulse (like warp spider shimmer orb)
-abilities to teleport allies, or slow enemies
-splash damage in melee (lightning field)
-warscythe power/heavy melee option
-anything, other people might have clearer ideas.
Pariah Lord (The First Pariah):
-lore of Pariah's is that they carry an anti-psyker gene, a lack of a soul that hurts psykers.
-base starts with power weapon that slows, lower base damage than other melee heroes (only better vs non power weapon heroes).
-medium range abilities to slow or drain enemy units.
-no mobility but abilities provide defense
-doesn't directly help allies
Destroyer Lord:
-destroys cover, can't benefit from cover, ranged hero, builds turrets
-has lower damage than the techmarine and plague champion, higher health but can't benefit from cover
-turrets could be weaker or equal, not sure
-can become faster with upgrades
-can improve armor with upgrades?
-abilities could improve allied vehicles, maybe an aura for destoyers
-weapon upgrades could be expensive but give moderate damage, not sure if given melee upgrade (it would be a warscythe probably).
-can upgrade mobility to move faster
-could slightly increase allies speed with an upgrade (one that upgrades his own speed, one that upgrades others, mutually exclusive)
Ideas for Global, and C'Tan considerations (C'Tan could also be tier 3):
500 Nuke Ideas:
-any generic nuke ideas
-a building eruption style nuke like the Tyranids
-a recolor
Other abilities could involve:
deep strike flayed ones
building or turret call ins
C'Tan call in unit like a Venerable Dreadnought type thing. Unit Cost also. Tier 3.
Slow an enemy champion (Pariah)
Damage AOE
Lightning Field (improve melee damage of a squad)
Solar Pulse (make it a global shimmer orb).
Veil of Darkness (infiltrates a unit)
Increase vehicle damage
For anyone interested just let me know if these goals seem realistic.