KanKrusha's AI Mod

Modding discussion.
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Dark Riku
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KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby Dark Riku » Thu 13 Feb, 2014 10:17 am

Maybe something to look into and incorporating in the Elite mod?

From GR:
KanKrusha wrote:One of the main problems for new players is that the game AI is so terrible that you can't even practice by playing on your own. This mod features a much improved challenge. It won't be of interest to experts and pros as even a good AI is not as good as a good player.

Get it here. A few minor kinks to iron out so watch for updates :-)

forums.relicnews.com -- KanKrusha's AI Mod --
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby realmissyou » Sat 15 Feb, 2014 8:27 am

:D ” Maybe KanKrusha's AI Mod incorporating into Elite mods“I just want to post this
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby KanKrusha » Tue 18 Feb, 2014 6:25 pm

Hi, Lulgrim contacted me to see if this would work. There is no reason it wouldn't except that Tzeentch does like to interfere in the modding process. I am waiting to hear back from him again but i could start doing a test build. i had planned to incorporate this in my own mod first but its going to get a lot more use here

What would be really helpful is to have a list of "essential" upgrades for all the new units, especially GK because I havent played them. This is essential for the AI rather than a human player. Also a relative priority on a scale up to 2000

Some upgrades are obviously essential eg guardsmen sarge (priority 2000), scout sarge (1500) but somethings are less obvious like eternal war for chaos marines (850) which wouldn't be essential for a human player. Also some upgrades are needed to lock out others eg I have made plasma guns essential for guardsmen to stop them upgrading to flamers in tier 2

I dont want anyone to think Lulgrim has promised to add this or that I speak for Lulgrim in anyway. At this stage it is an experiment to see if it will work (which it will!) and also if it is good enough.
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby Lulgrim » Tue 18 Feb, 2014 6:47 pm

Unless it somehow ends in disaster I think we'll want to integrate it most def.
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby KanKrusha » Fri 21 Feb, 2014 10:22 pm

Great.

But guys, I need the input! What upgrades for the units are "essential" for the AI?

I have also just discovered how to stop the AI building a unit (no more spore mines sitting in base). Are there any units the AI should not build? Any units that the AI should not choose to buy more than one of? (does not include coded limits such as termies)
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby Indrid » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 4:29 am

Have the Brother Captain favor Blessed Aegis for armor choice in T1 I would say, as it's a passive buff and using Canticle relies on positioning etc which might be hard to make work. Or go for Titan armour, as Nemesis Vortex might be tricky for the AI to use well. All the weapon choices are fine assuming he can use Demolishing Strike on the hammer reasonably well (ie not do it on thin air as the Chaos Lord does now with KTW). For accessories they should all work quite well.

Strike Squad ----> Storm Troopers ----> Purgation or Strike Squad ----> Storm Troopers ----> Interceptors depending on what the AI is facing in T1 (assuming that is possible)

Get sergeant up on ST in T1 as a fairly high priority to increase their survivability. Nade launchers as high priority vs Nids, Eldar, IG, Orks. Plasma guns vs power armour in T2 assuming they can use the knockback ability well, otherwise priorities Dread/Purifiers.

Purgation vs melee squads in T1. Get Psycannon in T2 probably straight away so they don't get too close and shot down.

I'd say Justicar is essential for Interceptors.

Should generally avoid building the Rhino I think, especially in T1 without a weapon.

GK AI should favor getting T2 units out before upgrading Strike Squad I think, as their Justicar abilities require timing and weighing up the situation. Perhaps stick with Psycannon for Strike Squad so the AI can just point and shoot with them.

Vindicare Assassin might be hard to make work as he will die very fast without backing him off unless you can make that happen. Keep him at maximum range at all times, even favor it over firing weapon. His upgrades are fine.

Should probably avoid the Librarian as he can be a resource sink and managing his abilities won't be easy.

Dread should be a solid choice. Not sure if you can make the AI get certain upgrades when facing certain units but the GK Dread has a lot of good options.

Purifiers should work well assuming the AI has enough resources to purchase their justicar more-or-less immediately.

T3 is all good choices.
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby Flash » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 5:17 am

Something you could like, sometimes commanders that can build turrets spam them nonsensicaly around either a single point, or their base. Possibly set build priority to very low
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby KanKrusha » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 6:04 am

Thanks guys. Those are helpful notes but I have to confess i am a bit more limited than that.

The dow2 AI is in some ways much more limited than the dow1 AI in that I can't control units directly . But is is also much more flexible because it is all runs on "demand" and priorities so we have new units up and running just with default demand and no scripting needed.

What I can do is set an artificially high demand for really important upgrades like storm trooper sarge. I prefer to leave heroes alone unless there is an upgrade you would get in every game no matter what.
EDIT - or I could put in all the hero wargear and rank it's priority, the calculated ranking is pretty lame

The whole upgrade system I have generally ramped up so units will upgrade more

I can set a low demand for less desirable units like librarian. For spore
Mines I have imposed a Zero squad count limit for the AI.

I have limited all races to one turret
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby KanKrusha » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 10:04 pm

Checklist. These are the new units I have added to the ai_tuning.info file. let me know if any thing is missing. Now I need to start on the abilities
[spoiler]
Chaos
======
Raptors
Terminators
Landraider

Eldar
======
dark reapers
fire dragons
wraithguard (were missing)

Imperial Guard
===============
Kasrkins
Spotter squad

Space Marine
==============
Whirlwind
Vanguard veterans
Sternguard veteran

Orks
=====
Painboy
Flashgitz

Tyrannids
==========
Doom of malantai
spore mines (were missing but i have also programmed limit to zero)

Grey knights
=============
Brother Captain
Stormtroopers
Strike Squad
Purgation squad
Rhino
Purifiers
Librarian
Vindicare Assassin
Paladins
Terminators
Dreadnought
Landraider [/spoiler]
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby KanKrusha » Thu 27 Feb, 2014 7:11 am

So, the idea was i would quickly add the abilities and then tell Lulgrim it was one and maybe in a few months I would work out a few other bits of code to add

BUT, then I saw some of my logic was wrong, even though it worked really well ... So, I fixed it but that made some bugs which I had to fix ... and then the new logic over rode all my other priorities so i spent days twiddling the demand here and there ...

And then ... Indrid's post gave me a great idea. I can now tell the AI if an upgrade is a bad idea in tier one but a good idea in tier 2 or vice versa. And now I can include all the hero wargear and prioritise it for different tiers

So, what i need is a list of "essential" wargear that is bad, okay or good in different tiers
eg Tacs flamer good, bad, bad (bad because need other weapons in higher tiers)
IG flamer okay, bad, bad (only okay cause better to get plasma in tier 2)
Ork shoota good, good, good
ork shoota nob okay, good, good (only okay in tier one because of resources)

I ask you "think like a noob" and treat it like a fixed build order tier by tier. Leave out anything that the AI doesnt need or we can trust it to get by itself

Oh, and i guess my number one priority should actually be adding the abilities so the AI can be added to the mod

PS - later we can do build orders for the races
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby appiah4 » Thu 27 Feb, 2014 10:20 am

I really enjoy this thread. Can everyone comment? I wouldn't mind taking the time to share my mind on MS priorities if it would save time.
ALWAYS ANGRY!! ALL THE TIME!!
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby KanKrusha » Thu 27 Feb, 2014 6:07 pm

Yep, any sensible suggestion taken. You kind of need to be a bit nooby like me. I have programmed the AI to do thinks like "omg I have 4 squads, tech to tier 2" and buy squad leaders as soon as possible

The only thing to remember is I am setting priorities for upgrades rather than giving direct commands

The other thing is any unit that the AI should not build or should only build one of. I am thinking it probably won't be able to use spotters
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby KanKrusha » Sat 01 Mar, 2014 5:02 am

finally knuckled down

new Ability checklist - tell me if i missed anything

Chaos
=====
land raider dirge
raptor jump plus 2nd jump
raptor melta
raptor strike
sorceror 2nd teleport
bloodletters 2nd teleport

Eldar
======
brighlance beamscorch
warpsiders 2nd and 3rd teleport
Dark reapers - pinning
Dark reapers - tempest barrage
Farseer - psychic storm
Webway warlock heal and warp spider energy regen

Imperial Guard
==============
Auspex scan - deliberately not added
Holy pyre added as was missing

Orks
=====
stormboy 2nd jump
Flashgits gitfinda
Painboy gitsauce
Painboy gitsauce improved
Painboy implant health
Painboy implant speed (deliberately left out strength as AI cant choose between melee and ranged units)
Paiboy unstable fuel injection
turret salvage

Marines
=======
ASM 2nd jump
terminators 2nd teleport
force commander 2nd teleport
Sternguard ATSKNF
added rhino smoke which was missing
Sternguard kraken rounds**
Sternguard vengeance rounds**
Other sternguard rounds not added as AI has no way of differentiating infantry types
Whirlwind hunter killer missiles**

Tyrannids
==========
Global infestation
Infestation tower spawn rippers
Infestation tower spawn spore mines
Doom energy shield
Doom attack cataclysm
Doom attack storm
Doom absorb life
Doom spirit leech

Grey Knights
=============
brother captain knockback attack
brother captain we are the hammer plus improved version
brother captain invulnerable
brother captain nemesis vortex (aoe_cloud)
brother captain psychic lash
brother captain canticle of absolution (set to spam)
brother captain teleport (plus teleport2)
brother captain ward

dreadnought maelstrom (aoe-slow)
dreadnought fist stun

global hellfury strike (basilisk gas)
global mindblades (buff target damage)
global dark excommunication (debuff silence)
global spawn landraider

interceptor krak grenade**
interceptor psyk out grenade
interceptor teleport (plus teleport2)
interceptor improved teleport (plus teleport2)

librarian might of titan (buff aoe)
librarian hammerhand (buff self damage)
librarian shround (target infiltrate)
librarian purge

purgation burn ground
purgation clear vision (buff self ranged)
purifiers psychic field
rhino smoke
stormtrooper plasma overcharge
stormtrooper sprint
stormtrooper grenade barrage
stormtrooper spawn mine
strike squad purification
terminators/paladdins hammerhand
terminator teleport (plus teleport2)
vindicare target acquired (buff self aimimg) low priority
vindicare assassin, both types as they are both "toggled" in activation_ext
vindicare exitus rounds
vindicare turbo rounds**

**may be buggy tactic filter and needs playtesting

i will explain the extra jumps and teleports later
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby KanKrusha » Mon 03 Mar, 2014 7:59 am

Hi,

Lulgrim mentioned the previous AI was unstable. Was there a problem with tyrannids in tier two? I am getting weird fatal AI errors
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby appiah4 » Thu 06 Mar, 2014 9:07 am

Here's my take on SM upgrades.. It's my playstyle anyway.

Code: Select all

   T1   T2   T3   Notes
Scout Sergeant   Good   Good   Good   
Shotguns   Good   Good   Okay   
Sniper Rifles   Okay   Okay   Okay   Not sure if AI will know how to keep them away and keep bleeding the opponent
Elite Training   N/A   Good   Okay   
Flamer   Good   Okay   Bad   
Plasmagun   N/A   Good   Good   
Missile Launcher   N/A   Good   Okay   
Tactical Sergeant   N/A   Good   Good   
Sternguard Veterans   N/A   Okay   Okay   People who know me know I really don't like SV; I doubt AI can use them well - if AI takes SVs, default to Hellfire and target commander/subcommanders.
Advanced Targeting   Okay   Bad   Bad   
Lascannon   N/A   Okay   Good   Depends on enemy AV presence, change T2 to Good if AI can tell if you have vehicle armor units
Assault Sergeant   N/A   Good      Good
Thunder and Lightning   N/A   Okay   Okay   Depends on enemy AV presence, change T2 to Good if AI can tell if you have vehicle armor units
Vanguard Veterans   N/A   N/A   Okay   Set to Okay because usually getting a new unit is better than upgrading to VV
Assault Cannon   N/A   Okay   Okay   
Multi Melta   N/A   Okay   Okay   Depends on enemy AV presence, change T2 to Good if AI can tell if you have vehicle armor units
Dark Age of Technology   N/A   N/A   Good   
Reinforced Armor Plating (Razorback)   N/A   Good   Bad   Razorback itself is a bad choice in T3, investing in it further is usually not a wise choice
Tome of Time   N/A   Bad   Bad   I doubt the AI can effectively use a Librarian, no need to invest in hard to use abilities
Psychic Hood   N/A   Bad   Bad   I doubt the AI can effectively use a Librarian, no need to invest in hard to use abilities
Force Staff   N/A   Good   Good   Adds considerable melee/ranged damage
Reinforced Armor (Predator)   N/A   N/A   Good   
Lascannon (Predator)   N/A   N/A   Good   
Power Fist (Vanguard Veterans)   N/A   N/A   Good   Loses disruption but I believe the Fist is a better all around weapon for the AI and easier to use
Heavy Flamer   N/A   N/A   Bad   Situational, very useful when used by player, I doubt AI can effectively genbash etc with it
Assault Cannon   N/A   N/A   Good   
Cyclone Missile Launcher   N/A   N/A   Okay   Depends on enemy AV presence, change T3 to Good if AI can tell if you have vehicle armor units
Lightning Claws   N/A   N/A   Okay   Depends on enemy AV presence, change T3 to Bad if AI can tell if you have vehicle armor units
ALWAYS ANGRY!! ALL THE TIME!!
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby KanKrusha » Sat 08 Mar, 2014 4:19 am

Nearly done, just getting some weird erros which I think are upgrades that have been removed such as aspect of banshee

Anyone got a list of other removed upgrades? Save me a little time and heartache :-)

EDIT - okay error is actually new upgrades but only those upgrades with very long rbf names like banshees and gaunts. I think I have a fix and a work around but no time to try next couple of days (spent 3 hours watching fatal AI crashes last night, best possible way to spend a Saturday evening!

EDIT2 - yay, a successful work around with some error trapping code. Proper "fix" did not work unfortunately
Last edited by KanKrusha on Sun 09 Mar, 2014 12:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby Dark Riku » Sat 08 Mar, 2014 2:44 pm

The Consecrated Bolter for the Techmarine.
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby KanKrusha » Sun 16 Mar, 2014 3:16 am

Hi guys

This is a playtestable version. There are some things I have not yet fixed but the scripting is doing my head in so there may be some time before I can make more progress

The ai_tuning.info file replaces the file in attributes\ai_tuning folder

the ai folder replaces the entire data\simulation\ai folder

there is one scar file

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9O7D6 ... sp=sharing

If you install this it will break your online play with other people who dont have these files. I suggest you make a safe copy of the elite_beta first.
Also, please dont install unless you know enough about modding the game to do this without help!
I suggest watching the AI play 2v2 or 1v1. Any fatal errors should be the AI trying ot build upgrades or use abilities that it cant. Only one AI player will be affected at a time. Make a note of tier and units on field (but there should be none)

Also watch for units the AI builds too much of or too little of. Because the build order is based on priorities and random factors you need to watch a couple of games

Finally, test with a friend and a couple of ai players. I have made minimal scar changes but we need to know that desync errors have not been created


Other changes that need to be made
===========================

Someone (sorry Lulgrim ;) ;) ) needs to go through all the sbps files and change the following values, it only takes less than 20 mins

squad-combat_behavior_ext
--------------------------------------
change call_for_help_distance to 60
-- exceptions, any unit that wanders off on its own like chaos lord can have a shorter distance
idle_leash_distance to 60
-- exceptions 1. units like baneblade give a shorter distance such as 30
-- exceptions 2. all set up teams should have distance 0. the only one that needs to be changed is IG HWT which needs to be set to 0

Jumping and teleporting heroes and units
------------------------------------------------------

These tend to jump on the spot when in melee. The easy cure is to give the teleport a minimum distance of at least 12 (mekboy already has 18)
Also, at the moment the units only have the strategy to jump into combat
If you give each unit a second jump (3 for WSE and warp spider exarchs) you should see some more interesting behavior
1. create the minimum distance
2. create a shared timer (i call it teleport in my mod)
3. create a copy of the ability - it must be named by adding a 2 to the end eg
ability\pvp\race_eldar\warpspider\eld_teleport_target_warpspider2
4. in user_interface use the path "[dev] always on" which i copied from melee resistance -- -- now ai player has access to an extra jump the human player does not

Things needing to be fixed
----------------------------------
Targetting nodes and gens -- there are only 2 solutions
1. make them autotargettable :cry: :cry:
2. giving them an aura which causes damage thereby triggering a retaliatory attack. I will experiment with this in the next week or so

Kiting behavior
improved but still shit. I have spent months trying to code this and will continue to do so:-)
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby Torpid » Sun 16 Mar, 2014 1:46 pm

Nice.
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby Takadekadaka » Sun 13 Apr, 2014 6:23 pm

How's this going along? I'm interested in knowing if this will make the next update
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby KanKrusha » Thu 17 Apr, 2014 9:47 am

I have had severe problems improving it beyond what I posted above as Relic "retired" a function between COH and DOW2 that I really wanted to use. My modding time has also disappeared recently.

Above posted files seem to be functional and could be included though
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby sk4zi » Thu 17 Apr, 2014 2:40 pm

would be cool if this would come in the new patch.

actually the best of this is, that a game might not be over for sure if some1 drops.
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby KanKrusha » Sun 04 May, 2014 10:17 am

It is done. "It was only a matter of time" to misquote

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9O7D6 ... sp=sharing

This link contains
-- replacement AI folder which goes in Data folder
-- a replacement designerlib.scar file which goes in the scar folder
-- and also a replacement autoblueprints.scar folder which goes in the Attributes folder

I have added AI folders for grey knights in case they get fully implemented as a separate race. This would still require adding them to data\ai\util\lua_consts.ai and scar\luaconsts.scar files

Also pasted in from previous post:
Other changes that need to be made
===========================

Someone (sorry Lulgrim ;) ;) ) needs to go through all the sbps files and change the following values, it only takes less than 20 mins

squad-combat_behavior_ext
--------------------------------------
change call_for_help_distance to 60
-- exceptions, any unit that wanders off on its own like chaos lord can have a shorter distance
idle_leash_distance to 60
-- exceptions 1. units like baneblade give a shorter distance such as 30
-- exceptions 2. all set up teams should have distance 0. the only one that needs to be changed is IG HWT which needs to be set to 0

Jumping and teleporting heroes and units
------------------------------------------------------

These tend to jump on the spot when in melee. The easy cure is to give the teleport a minimum distance of at least 12 (mekboy already has 18)
Also, at the moment the units only have the strategy to jump into combat
If you give each unit a second jump (3 for WSE and warp spider exarchs) you should see some more interesting behavior
1. change the minimum distance
2. create a shared timer (i call it teleport in my mod)
3. create a copy of the ability - it must be named by adding a 2 to the end eg
ability\pvp\race_eldar\warpspider\eld_teleport_target_warpspider2
4. in user_interface use the path "[dev] always on" which i copied from melee resistance -- -- now ai player has access to an extra jump the human player does not
Atlas

Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby Atlas » Sun 04 May, 2014 5:06 pm

I haven't tried this out, but kudos to you for finishing what you started. That's not the usual thing.
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby Unconscious » Sun 11 May, 2014 1:27 am

Great work. I think this and some dota mod would be very popular for gamers. It would provide new audiences and boost recognition of the creators.
aka Alexander / Eye0fHoruS.
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby Bjusterbaarlik » Wed 21 May, 2014 12:54 pm

I have tried this, but I received fatal AI errors while playing. I assume I did something wrong while replacing files and folders.

Will this make it into the next Elite version?
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby darleth » Wed 21 May, 2014 6:21 pm

Great job, but...could you explain how to install and use it? I can't foun "Attributes folder".

Is it necesary both zip or only the last one?. Please help me...

Thank you very much...

Darleth
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby darleth » Wed 04 Jun, 2014 8:18 am

Any help? How to install and use it?

Thanks a lot...
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby Black Relic » Tue 10 Jun, 2014 4:41 am

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread. ... 1-May-2014

His mod on the Relic forums should help figure it out. Link is also in Riku's starting topic post.
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Re: KanKrusha's AI Mod

Postby Soulsbreacht » Tue 27 Apr, 2021 12:13 am

hi, I would like to do a little writing here about the AI ​​of the imperial guard the last update, I do not know if it is because I use it in the vanilla but I see that the AI ​​is not producing almost units and I see that the heavy infantry those that accompany it who loads the weapon they come out with bare hands I do not know what will happen there but the rest if it is excellent I congratulate him for that.

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