Castle's Armageddon DMZ -- preview images updated and in 2.25.2023!! Download now!

[Castle]

Elite...


Prepare, for Armageddon! Castle's Armageddon DMZ!






>>>>PVP notes: This map is unique, at least this first out version, in a few ways:<<<<

First
There are 'Forward position' turrets, one per player (third turret, las), this is to give another choice in how to strategize early competitive play, and to keep basic forward rushing, or even back-capping, to a minimum early on. You can run up and repair these third turrets, or focus resources first. This is crucial in middle lane. ^each turret has 1/3rd life left from the "previous battle". >>This is also true for each building on the map, so don't camp the buildings long.
Second
The North most lane (directly affecting positions 3 and 6 potentially), is blocked by 'heavy crush' tank barricades. You cannot path through until those barricades are removed. You most use middle-north lane or lower.
Third
Positions 1 and 4, top of each team in map selection screen, is meant to be 'Captains' position, or for the most experienced player otherwise willing to lead the team. This was an original notion for the original map 'Armageddon DMZ'.
Fourth
I made this map to be very much in the spirit of the Retribution title, thus there is a specific starting spot for each faction, with supporting visuals, bringing all the factions together for an ultimate battle. See more in the next list, should you so choose to play the map that way.

Starting positions
*heroes listed are narrative suggestions only, wip*

1 - Eldar (Farseer) *Captain*

2 - Ork (Mekboy)

3 - SM (Captain)


4 - Tyranid (Ravener Alpha) *Captain*

5 - Chaos (Chaos Sorcerer)

6 - IG (Inquisitor)




Quick rundown and brief backstory; 'flavor' narrative':

There are two subordinate themes to the map, over-arched by one core theme: it's a De-Militarized Zone (DMZ), split by a river on either side. The sub themes follow as: Imperium military-industrial colony on one side of the map, dusty and run-down local mining territory on the other. In the middle of the map the two themes combine to form an over-all narrative that is 'Armageddon DMZ'.

Backstory

Further, Imperial Primarch resources have moved into the region to capitalize on new-found rare resources found being mined in the sector. Local government and (Cadian?) forces did not appreciate the power grab, demands for fair trade and compensation were made. Thus, a De-Militarized Zone was setup as a compromise per diplomatic relations--workers would pass through security checkpoints, the Imperial forces would supply better living conditions and new construction for the sector, resource trading would be strictly calculated and monitored.

After years of various scandal, matters eventually lead to a recent skirmish of firepower, leaving the location badly scarred from fierce warfare prior to a brief cease-fire...
the reason: no one seems to understand just how, or why, war has broken out...

...

Eldar have tracked Tyranid psychic signatures across a sector to this location. Perhaps a hive spore grouping went un-noticed for many years, slowly growing within the planets echo system, and now burts forth in full grown terror to wipe out the planet.

The Imperial Guard Inquisitor was dispatched to search out Chaos influences, thwart corruption and deal with heretics, naturally.

Chaos forces followed Eldar and Tyranid signs through the void, after corrupting local forces with various Marks of Chaos; strange occurrences have been noticed around town, including ritual murders. The political destabilization in the mining zone is all part of one Chaos influence or another here. Opportunity for Chaos this time, is to capture a Psychic resource somehow, while harnessing ... well, skulls for the skull throne, of course.

Orks saw it all going down from the vestiges of deep space well enough, and have sent a Mek Boy force of several ships to grab all the lootz boyz!

Space Marines were already deploying to put down potentially corrupt Imperial Guard forces and to quell unrest.


Preliminary Images

• Mid VP area (was Worker Checkpoints area); Mid-Map, Middle VP
  
  *was*
  *all that detail work, and I smashed it... it was far too crazy fighting amongst all that stuff. Watching Banshee run back and forth through it all was great for a minute though*
  
  
  
• Marketplace, Mid-West Power
  
  *was*
  
  
  
• Industrial Processing Area;North Power
  *looks the same still, just more killy*
  
  
  
• Industrial Processing Area; North Chaos Portal
  
  'Hey where'd that come from?' *mostly the same, but this gateway of doom is cleaned up from previous times*
  
  
  
• Space Marine Power Center, Natural Power; Team 1, position 3
  *about the same, looks more grungy now; more walls and storage cover stuff*
  
  
  
• Natural VP, Team 1
  
  *about the same still*
  
  
  
• Eldar Starting Position (Player 1 ' Team Captain Position', middle lane), Team 1
  
  
  
• Ork Starting Position (Player 2, South 'Wing' lane), Team 1
  
  
  
• Space Marine Starting Position (Player 3, North 'Support' lane), Team 1
  
  
  
• Foot Bridge (Rhino or bigger does not path through), Mid-Map, Side 1:
  *same-ish: side 2 foot bridge is much changed to a more 'dirty mining area' appearance*
  
  
  
• Tyranid Starting Position (Player 4 ' Team Captain Position', middle lane), Team 2
  
  
  
• Chaos Space Mahrines Position (Player 5, South 'Wing' lane), Team 2
  
  
  
• Imperial Guard Position (Player 6, North 'Support' lane), Team 2
  
  
  
  Other screen shots, various
  
• Req Point, construction platform, mid lane, Team 2:
  
  
  
• Req Point, mid lane, Team 1:
  
  
  
• Req Point, North lane, Team 2:
  
  
  
• Power {and mid Req}, South lane, Team 1:
  
  
  
• Ork Shipwreck, West, Team 1:
  
  *lots of improvements to how 'wrekked' it looks*
  
  
  
• Natural VP, Construction Platform South; Team 2
  
  *about the same, but everything works now so that's nice; longer, platform stretches to power node position 5*
  
  
  
• Mining Area; Team 2, non-playable
  *plenty of details done and changed here, more to come for non-playable areas. Lots to look forward to*
  
  
  Other various quick screen shots, current 2.25.2023
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  *note the tank traps here, Northern most lane is blocked by 'heavy crusher' objects; cannot clear until heavy vehicle or walker. See above notes on PVP play for more**
  
  
  
• Fuel platform; between positions 4 and 6, Team 2
  
  
  Cheers
  
  
  
  THE MAP FILE
  
  
  
  
  • https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_5R-vXXramHeEeTMY68LbB9FXtF68rII?usp=sharing
    
    
    Please keep all feedback constructive
    
    4/17/2023, latest release:
    
    Massive overhauls, map is nearing 'Master Crafted' status. See notes for more.
    
    Castle's 6p Armageddon DMZ
    
    
    >>Notes<< for 6p Castle's Armageddon DMZ:
    
    --> it is recommended to have non-toaster hardware to play this map, as it's scale and size demand somewhat current GPU specs; preferably a FX or better CPU architecture, and a GPU made circa 2016 or later
    
    This map has several tight corner areas, some significant height changes, and requires good use of meta, and 'micro', in-game unit control. This map may astound you, you have been warned
    
    -This map is balanced and intended for PVP play; each resource or strategic point is within 1m< difference per lane.
    -This map is the largest size you can make for a PVP map, of any kind, for the Essence 2.0 engine.
    
    +'Castle's' is an alternate version from a typical DOW2 PVP map (see notes below, next), and thus may suit Annihilate PVP mode for some players best.
    
    + The 'Castle's' version includes a third, and a fourth turret, per player lane position.
    
    / The third turret is placed along the river, per each lane, in a 'forward' area
    (some damage has been seen from the previous battle, so go fix your forward turret!).
    
    / The fourth turret is type Missile, placed close to each spawn location. This is to help with early base charging via vehicles in T2 rush circumstances, or to keep players from chasing back to HQ without significant consequences; this helps both low and high skill play. The missile turret is located right next to each HQ location in order to keep it's gameplay affect limited, but effective.
    
    / Both the forward turret, and Missile HQ turret, can be 'scuttled' for 4 Red each, either as a meta-game approach when losing the turrets to damage, or tactically as a large sacrifice to push red during a match.
    
    In some areas, cover can be "eroded" with crushing-type units, making new fire positions possible. (edited)
    
    
    
    Map install is very easy: drop .sga file from dl link above (Caslte's Armageddon DMZ.sga) into your Mods folder under <Steam root file path/GameAssets>...
    
    example: (drive letter):\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\dawn of war ii - retribution\GameAssets
    
    Den start da game.. find the map, play it and enjoy awesome battles wat is 40k
    
    *if there is no Mods folder, make one (in <Steam...DOW2:Retribution root>/GameAssets); put the map .sga file in there. See Readme in the zip file download link if needed for some additional help.

Last note: I would like this map to stay generally only Elite mod available, with some permissions for testing at this time. I don't want it released on MODdb or any third-party sites yet. Thank you!

Enjoy!

this map is dedicated to Desertfox2007, lost to the void in 2019; without their help this map would never would have been completed. Miss ya buddy

[Panda]

Sweet, looking forward to it. Yeah always thought this could have potential hope this is realised now.

Could this be put in the next beta?

[Dark Riku]

Looks pretty good. I'd give it a go when I can.

[Raffa]

Think the problem with last Armageddon was a) campfest and b) a longass hike back to base. Seems you've tried to solve a) which is/was the bigger problem. But visually, I mean wow.

[Castle]

@panda, Raffa and Riku

Thanks guys! Get me some feedback when you can.

As for getting the map into the next beta: I just want to be sure that the map does as well as it seems to do for me as it does for everyone else. And maybe, just maybe, with enough support we can get Cael and others to pack it into a small beta update? I know I just missed Beta 5 this week. Really looking forward to seeing this map in the community as soon as it is ready. Moar (good) maps!

For now I will update this thread with more preview images etc.

I will be coordinating some testing tonight also

[Flash]

Love this map! Your pics look fantastic as well. Looking forward to testing it when I have time

[Castle]

Love this map! Your pics look fantastic as well. Looking forward to testing it when I have time

Excellent!

[MaxPower]

Gonna post something short now, will try to write something a bit longer later on.

One thing that should be fixed is the loading map screen where u have that little circle in the mid, yet the outer areas are hidden in the fog. I think it defeats the purpose of having a "loading map pic" if most of that map is hidden behind a thick layer of fog.

Edit:

Okay took a closer look, well first it looks better then ur first map. 2nd it still looks like a mish mash of themes, that I think don't fit together that well. Might be just me, but it still looks sub par.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Thank you Castle, no More Cammpaggedon anymore i hope ^^

[Castle]

Just de-cluttered the map--especially around the HQ lanes--after some brief testing with another player.

Also adjusted distance between the two buildings in mid, tweaked a few more things.

Uploading new map build as of 11:45pm 10/15/2013 PST

[Castle]

:D Thank you Castle, no More Cammpaggedon anymore i hope ^^

Oh the map is meant for carnage and basically being able to launch quite a bit of forces from a 'camping' type of play.

..and your welcome

[Castle]

*old old*

Gonna post something short now, will try to write something a bit longer later on.
*Max was pretty much right, at this time*

One thing that should be fixed is the loading map screen where u have that little circle in the mid, yet the outer areas are hidden in the fog. I think it defeats the purpose of having a "loading map pic" if most of that map is hidden behind a thick layer of fog.

Edit:

Okay took a closer look, well first it looks better then ur first map. 2nd it still looks like a mish mash of themes, that I think don't fit together that well. Might be just me, but it still looks sub par.

*sigh* sub par? It is not perfect but I think you should choose your words more wisely and think outside the box more here. Try some innovation man!

It is far better looking and working than the map was before. That was the point.

Also, it is supposed to be a mix of themes and as it stands the themes provided by Relic are quite limited. So far most maps seem to be coming out 'overly themed' to be honest with you Max. You may not read many complaints but I am certainly aware of many and find almost no players playing the new maps.

If you have theme/tile/asset recommendations to use for replacing what is there now for this redux--that will magically fix your "sub par" theme issues--please post them here. Otherwise you will have to suffer sub par 'thematic problems' ... eeps, sounds tough.

The map plays and functions better than many 3v3 maps (it is quite simple in design after all), and looks better than many of the retail maps (in-game).

The fog being rendered on the map load images is meant to be that way, to warn players of the fact that the map is...well, foggy. As for map awareness, players need to play the map to really figure it out anyway; that has been the case with all maps, whether the fog is rendered on load images or not. But at least the map loading image gives everyone an idea of where to go. I do however plan to tweak and improve the loading images before finalizing the beast.

My main concern at this point is that the map functions correctly and is sufficient for competitive play. That process is coming along nicely.

Thus, if you or anyone else really wants to post about theme ideas I want very accurate suggestions (eg use a building from Angel Gate at X on the map): that is fine. Otherwise, lets leave the theme alone and focus on how the map plays

[Castle]

*old*

Currently I am focusing on whether or not the mid lane bunkers work out, or if they are too cluttered.

[MaxPower]

The map plays and functions better than many 3v3 maps (it is quite simple in design after all), and looks better than many of the retail maps (in-game).

Just no. The only 2 retail 3on3 maps that look kinda meh, are JoC and Tiber Outpost and this map doesnt look better (not even close tbh) then lets say Angel Gate, Argent Shelf, Cap Spire, Argus Desert Gate, Calderis Refinery, Typhon Arena, etc. .

Also the main problem of this map still persists, namely the really narrow bridges that lead to the mid. Another thing that really breaks the immersion is that fact that there is no sand on the industrial parts (i.e. streets), its too clean just saying.

And you wanted feedback u got it, talkin mostly about the visual style which i don't like (as I said its just a mix of different themes that don't fit together) and no I won't tell u which objects u should use instead to make it look smooth. You should do that on your own.

Btw. feel free to critique my maps, especially concerning the visuals.

[Indrid]

I have three main problems with the map (have not seen the most recent version you just posted about though).

1) Remove the buildings from the middle VP. It was a poor decision by Angry Bird (who did the initial redux) to put buildings there. They are way too close to eachother and it's rather obnoxious design to have them covering mid VP from both sides. This is a redux change I always disliked.

2) The natural powers are so insanely natural that they are even covered by base turrets. I think a req point is also covered but not sure. They are basically in the HQs.

3) As Max said, I do not like the map thematically or visually. I don't know why you like to mix tilesets and assets so much, I've never heard of anyone else thinking that they were so limited in the WB. You have urban assets plonked in the middle of an arid desert, that have no signs of actually being in a desert. You have metal and concrete with no signs of sand or weathering. You have industrial high tech urban buildings in amongst rural desert buildings with no rhyme or reason. You have distinctly tropical plants (ferns?) on the banks of a muddy desert river.

Various splats are oversized and low res, as if you've not optimised the size. e.g. the blue-ish tiles in the mid VP (why not use desert-themed tiles?) and the huge tank treads which are so big they look like an Ork Gargant left them. Low res things don't look pretty.

I did not want to post another critical review of one of your maps immediately so I wanted to wait for someone else to post their take, but it seems like everyone else just "really looks forward to playing it" but never actually bothered to post anything after they did.

All in all, I think it was a very strange map to try and edit, as the basic design is difficult to work with because of the bridges which are just too narrow.

[Dark Riku]

I only managed to play with and against bots on it so far and pretty much agree with Indrid. And the rhino husk still move. I think that's a bug.

[Castle]

*old*

@Indrid

ok, hmmm


I could make the bridges wider by just building terrain bridges, such like the bridges at the edges. Removing the bridges in the middle would reduce a lot of potential problems, and yes they are too narrow. *which has all been done*

Removing the buildings is something I have always debated too. I will try a build with the buildings removed, likely replaced with a bunch of rubble indicative of their destruction, useable as cover. (all but a small building, to keep the original idea which I did think was uniquely fun*

Question: if the buildings are removed should the high walls stay? I will try leaving them intact for now, with some modification to the tiny doors... * you can fire through the 'atrium' walls that are intact from the "previous battle". This shouldn't be an issue*

Mixing tile-sets seems fine if the aesthetics can work together, which I think can be done. After all, wouldn't urban buildings dropped/flown into a desert setting, via 40k engineering, look a bit like this? A bit awkward and perhaps hap-hazard? Even more so if it were a DMZ (DE-militarized Zone) where factions moved in quickly, say a few years before...
*this was the bane of my detail work and life doing this map. For the most part, given what is available in the WorldBuilder eg from Relic and team, this is pretty damn good now*

As for the splats not at optimized size: well you have a very critical eye that most players do not have. Also, most optimum sizes for splats are too small for practical use, based on what was or is needed of them. I will however be spline-ing many splats in the near future, which will help, but splines have plenty of their own problems.
*removed a ton, sized a ton down*

The nat power nodes are a bit awkward indeed, I will switch the power buildings around with the nodes.
*cleaned up a ton, smooth play around power nodes now. no issues when putting other buildings nearby either*

Lastly, I chose to redux this map because it is frick'n fun to play half the time...
*indeed*


@Riku

Those are not Rhino husks, those Rhino's are meant to represent industrial cargo carriers and are destructible 'props' effectively. Not a bug. They are supposed to react like a Rhino, but are not accessible to players (and give no red etc.).
*never seen them move or do anything they shouldn't in any testing still*

I have already removed one Rhino and will be removing or adjusting at least one more.

Will get a build out hopefully tonight!

Thanks guys!

[MaxPower]

As for the splats not at optimized size: well you have a very critical eye that most players do not have. Also, most optimum sizes for splats are too small for practical use, based on what was or is needed of them. I will however be spline-ing many splats in the near future, which will help, but splines have plenty of their own problems.

U are so wrong on this one, u just use more splats and u use them wiser. Another thing, if u use splats but don't have the right texture/tile set to make them blend in, don't use them.

Also y won't u spline the road, instead u use splats?

Btw, gonna post a pic showing how a desert road could/should look like if done properly:

*sigh* sub par? It is not perfect but I think you should choose your words more wisely and think outside the box more here. Try some innovation man!

No, sub par is actually the right words to describe the current mess of tilesets/splats/splines and objects. If u wanna know more read Indrids post about this map and mine about ur first map again, because u basically did some of the mistakes again u already did with ur sandstorm map. Also take a look at the 3 pics i posted, I'd say that this little road looks more like a road on a deserted desert outpost might look like, it also looks cleaner and I'd say better overall.

Kind regards Max

[Castle]

@Max

I tried spline-ing the rode splats, but it did not work out how I wanted. But I may revisit the idea .
* I was only partially wrong here however*

[Castle]

*old*

Map heavily updated (main link at first page updated).


I have removed much clutter-especially in mid. Removed the tiny doors and much of the walls in middle at the sides, rubble used to indicate wall destruction and give cover.
*did keep the buildings so far, but moved them apart much more. See how it goes.



Removed cloud scroll effect.

Added more splines, widened the bridges in middle (now 22px) and fixed the position of the nat power nodes.

Improved some splats and splines visually

Further tweaks to building spacing and various objects coming next day or two

Image updates:

power node adjustment

mid adjustments

current mid bridge look

[Castle]

Having listened to Max and Indrid, I've been overhauling this map. I have gone about some deep detail work including bringing the assets in line with one another for visual effectiveness regarding better play and better visual appeal etc. I added tons of detail with better tile work and better splat work, and removed the '2 buildings in mid' for something entirely different.

There are now 3 different areas in the middle: one side is a processing plant industrial area, middle is now a check-point DMZ clearance area, and one is a market. So far the splat and asset changes are bringing everything in line nicely for a change.

This started as a 'quick fix' project for Arma River Crossing and has now turned into a whole set of ideas I had no idea of working towards. I am however very happy with what I have learned from all this (mainly, how to throw serious detail into a map), where the map is heading and I am excited to present a much better, finished, more interesting and smoother playing map soon.

[PePPeR]

Where is the builder for these maps?. Never mind the pasting over the originals.

We would like to try our hand at a few new maps. Made a few maps back in the Tiberian Sun days. Me and Dims made the (modicum) map if any you ever seen that popular one playing Tiberian Sun.

[Indrid]

WorldBuilder.exe in your Retribution directory.

[Castle]

Rough preview images in for now, see original post at front of this thread for the goods.

[Swift]

The download has been removed why is this?

I want to say at first I like the look of all of these enclosed areas which reminds me of playing Cities of Death. The narrow clutter squares look so nice for running around the road bound vehicles with Infantry (though I gather the walls are something like medium crush, but I like the theme).

As for negative criticisms, I cannot say becuase none of the current pictures tell me much about it. The buildings on the VP are exceptionally questionable (which i trust you updated since) but until there is a link I cannot say for myself. All I can say is, from waht i have seen it looks nice, so make it work.

[Castle]

The download has been removed why is this?

Because the map is still being properly finished in one area and is not ready for community testing. Thus, as the section says, ignore download options at this time.

I want to say at first I like the look of all of these enclosed areas which reminds me of playing Cities of Death. The narrow clutter squares look so nice for running around the road bound vehicles with Infantry (though I gather the walls are something like medium crush, but I like the theme).

As for negative criticisms, I cannot say becuase none of the current pictures tell me much about it. The buildings on the VP are exceptionally questionable (which i trust you updated since) but until there is a link I cannot say for myself. All I can say is, from waht i have seen it looks nice, so make it work.

Please don't make general critiques on a map you have not yet tried

Earlier comments in this thread are obsolete, but yes there have been many changes and fixes to say the least.

Good to hear you like the idea, but indeed these pictures do not inform you at all of how the map, or any of it's areas, will perform. So far, all testing with human players has shown a very sharp experience that is unique, tactical and...well, Armageddon

[Castle]

Bump

Hoping this day could come eventually.


After many recoveries from data crashes (thanks Windows 10), and then a lot of 'not sure I can make the map idea work', tons of testing, and then IRL stuff over the years, I finally pushed through and finished this map a couple of weeks ago.

I'll post some screen shots, and drop it for download asap. Please come test it with me, I will be running both Elite and DOW2:Ret vanil open sessions soon. What a journey to actually see this thing done after all this time

I have added replies to old posts above, where useful, with current updates. There's a million miles between those posts and now, but new imformation is always good. See replies with ** text in-between.

Map Download link here as well:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1df_4MSNYemQc0y4d5Frg4fS6hYOOyBAA/view?usp=sharing

[Atlas]

Awesome, thanks for sharing! But damn, that's quite a necro lol.

[Castle]

Awesome, thanks for sharing! But damn, that's quite a necro lol.

Lol Which is necro? This thread? Or the map original idea now reduxed?

[SoulEater]

Awesome, thanks for sharing! But damn, that's quite a necro lol.

Lol Which is necro? This thread? Or the map original idea now reduxed?

Both! Necro (in this context), is to revive a forum thread.

In your case, your original post was in 2013, and you sent out a comment in 2023. Now, that is definitely some necro man XD