Kasrkin

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Surprise Attack!
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Kasrkin

Postby Surprise Attack! » Sat 04 Jan, 2014 2:36 am

Hi guys,

I revisited the IG after playing around with Orks for a while recently and noticed something that I'd never noticed before, mostly because I never made it past T1 with IG in Elite mod games: Kasrkin.

I watched an old video by Indrid where he pits(w/ help from Dark Riku) various ranged units together into combat to see who comes up on top: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGPesbHQ0II

And the Kasrkin do remarkably well! Which led me to wonder: Why don't I see these guys, like, ever? I've gotten to T3 vs Imperial Guard as Space Marines, Orks, and Eldar, and never once have I seen a player go for them. What's their role in the IG build/late-game? In most of the games I've played, most IG players either go for Ogryns and then tech to vehicles or get stormtroopers to supplement their Flashlights.

Also, on a side note, I tried to search "Kasrkin" using the search function, but like most of these one-word searches, the forum informed me that there were too many results to show. Is there some way around this? I feel like I may be asking a lot of questions that have already been asked before.
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Bahamut » Sat 04 Jan, 2014 2:45 am

usually because players rather go for leman russes or baneblade instead of just more infantry.. But yeah, kasrkin's dps is absolutely over the top. If they were standard issue purchases you'd see alot of threads asking for well needed nerfs for this dudes
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Indrid » Sat 04 Jan, 2014 2:53 am

They are a bit of an odd unit atm. Very effective at what they do but IG players usually want Leman Russ' when they hit T3 and the rest of their pop is taken up with upgraded Guardsmen and whatever they got in T2. Kasrkin are usually purchased when something dies and frees up pop.

I'd like to see them implemented as a T3 call-in for each IG comm. Showing up potentially at the start of T3 in the middle of combat would make them a bit more dynamic and unique compared to Stormtroopers, and perhaps more desirable. Upgrades etc would remain the same.
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby crazyman64335 » Sat 04 Jan, 2014 3:37 am

don't see them very often? dude i spam the hell out of them, i actually casted a game where i lost all my guardsmen, managed to hold til t3 and built 4 squads of them. It was scary for them terminators :lol:
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby SirSid » Sat 04 Jan, 2014 6:42 am

Yha they actualy are a great replacment if u losse a guardsmen.

I have been trying to get this unit as offten as i can latley , and i got to say it's a nice unit but hard to put into my IG roster. I find them pretty good when u get thare plasma guns and overall upgrade thing. but they are expensive and yes u do want the tank first 90 % of the time.

The other thing im finding about them is since they start at level 1 they just don't hit thare stride till they have been on the field for a bit and leveld to 2 and that can take some time , not really something u have late in t3 so they have definaly lost me a few games lately.

overall id say a good unit but u really got to make them pay off , and since storm tropers can infiltrate they ususaly pay off better .


And thare melta guns suck balls they are hoirible vs a walker or monster .
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Sub_Zero » Sat 04 Jan, 2014 8:26 am

I wanted to create a thread with my suggestions how to buff grenade launchers/melta guns. Because these weapons underperform, especially grenade launchers.
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Commissar Vocaloid » Sat 04 Jan, 2014 10:02 am

Kasr are bad ass but I agree with Indrid - they're usually an afterthought for IG when they first reach T3.

Though to add to their description, they're also an option when you reach T3 and are low on Power. As for a drop, it would be interesting to see but can a faction have 6 abilities in the global bar? I know the minimum is 4 with Orks I believe, but I've never seen 6 and don't know if that'd even be possible?
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby [TLV]Soul_Drinkers » Sat 04 Jan, 2014 3:06 pm

Concerning the grenade launcher. Maybe a speed buff on the projectile itself so it lands more consistently for good dps?
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Cheah18 » Sat 04 Jan, 2014 3:10 pm

Yeah I actually play Kasrkin a lot as an IG player and they are very good. VERY good. One of the things that hasn't been mentioned is their range, which I believe to be longer than most other units (like that of ST), if I'm not mistaken. Getting that high dps at such a long range is just insane.

The only things are grenade launchers and meltas which, as said above, are pretty UP, and the melta is bordering on useless. The 2 Kasrkin models have to run up so close to the vehicle and in tier 3 they just get shot down.

I wouldn't mind taking this over the commissars mine drop in terms of globals. I know the mine drop is useful but meh...

Concerning the grenade launcher. Maybe a speed buff on the projectile itself so it lands more consistently for good dps?


This is a good idea and I support this. Could also give them an effect like knockback or the grenade barrage ability instead.
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Sub_Zero » Sat 04 Jan, 2014 3:48 pm

Ok if you have started it then I will throw my suggestions.

Grenade launcher.

I see 2 variants of buffing here. The first one is when we give more abilities to this weapon. Like barrage of stun grenades. That is simple, they fire some grenades that will stun any infantry target for a small amount of time and in a small area. This ability will give an edge in any firefight, can be used against setup teams, can act as a melee counter with followed up grenade. And the second one is when we modify the weapon itself. Flying time of grenades has to be evened arround IST grenade launchers' grenades flying time. We may reduce current fire rate but each grenade will be disrupting targets as a compensation of reduced fire rate. These fixes/some of these fixes will make grenade launchers viable against any infantry target. Currently I would pick up grenade launchers only against IG and maybe tyranids but plasma guns are always a better choice against venom brood/warrior brood.

Melta.

There is not much to say. I would give a range increase to melta guns and probably a small damage buff. And according to the fact that kasrkin are veterans they know where to shoot. Maybe with each shot target starts to receive more damage? Like 0,5% more damage received with each shot? 10 shots done by kasrkin equipped with melta guns = 5% more damage taken by their target. Not broken, huh?
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Ace of Swords » Sat 04 Jan, 2014 4:04 pm

crazyman64335 wrote:don't see them very often? dude i spam the hell out of them, i actually casted a game where i lost all my guardsmen, managed to hold til t3 and built 4 squads of them. It was scary for them terminators :lol:

I also do This. They are spammable and they shouldn't really be, in a few seconds they can melt the avatar/guo aswell as any kind of infantry, light or heavy.
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby [TLV]Soul_Drinkers » Sat 04 Jan, 2014 4:13 pm

Could we need speed up the projectile nades for kasrs? Solely since they are a t3 unit and would shoot and aim them more proficiently
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Commissar Yarrick » Sat 04 Jan, 2014 4:27 pm

Indrid wrote:They are a bit of an odd unit atm. Very effective at what they do but IG players usually want Leman Russ' when they hit T3 and the rest of their pop is taken up with upgraded Guardsmen and whatever they got in T2. Kasrkin are usually purchased when something dies and frees up pop.

I'd like to see them implemented as a T3 call-in for each IG comm. Showing up potentially at the start of T3 in the middle of combat would make them a bit more dynamic and unique compared to Stormtroopers, and perhaps more desirable. Upgrades etc would remain the same.


Like having them droped into combat by Valkyrie. It would make even more dynamic entry.
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Torpid » Sat 04 Jan, 2014 6:53 pm

Yes and that would actually work Yarrick since they're not an infiltration-sneaky-sneaky unit like ST often are. Should also reinforce nearby guardsmen just for mad lulz, epic coolness and barrance since it costs red! Like seer council they should be capped at 1 too.
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Commissar Yarrick » Sun 05 Jan, 2014 9:53 am

I really do hope Caeltos and Lulgrim will implement em like this in updates to come

Cadian Karskin reinforcements (T3 IG global): 300 Red, 450/45

Send Valkyrie drop cadian karskin elites on the field, (reinforce nearby guardsmen?) Only one Cadian Karskin squad may be on the field at once.

Upgrades:
Same old stuff.

Squad commander: Adds a leader with powersword and plasma pistol or hot shot lass pistol.

Ability: "For the Imperium of man!" - Rallies nearby imperial guardsmen to fight with increased vigor granting inspiriation for each kill Cadian Karskin get. Duration, 10 seconds. Cooldown 40 seconds after the effect has worn off.

Why?: Because as elite units go, they are few in number and they cannot be deployed on the field in masses. And having one of these on the field at once such as Vangard veterans of SM and sternguard etc. They are a signature unit and embody the image of the faction they are in. I'd say we at least give it a try.
Still need further contemplating though.
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Sub_Zero » Sun 05 Jan, 2014 10:12 am

And I do hope they will do melta guns and grenade launchers viable to use =)
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby SirSid » Sun 05 Jan, 2014 10:14 pm

I find having 1 of these units is pointless , u need 2 then the burst damage is high engouhf to scare off level 3 units . I like the idea of having them droped onto the field but if we are limiting them to 1 unit i feel they would need SERIOUS buffs.

The nades are actualy bad ass the range seems much larger than the other races nades ( not sure if this is corect or not ) but a speed boost to the throw speed would be interesting. As a eldar player i am use to nades so i love having a nade i can spam in t3.
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Torpid » Sun 05 Jan, 2014 10:31 pm

You need two of them? Are you kidding me, they have absurd dps which fires in bursts and at really long range while moving really fast and having AV and frag grenades. They're such a beastly unit.
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Dark Riku » Mon 06 Jan, 2014 12:33 am

That Torpid Gamer wrote:You need two of them? Are you kidding me, they have absurd dps which fires in bursts and at really long range while moving really fast and having AV and frag grenades. They're such a beastly unit.
This.
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Commissar Vocaloid » Mon 06 Jan, 2014 5:51 am

That Torpid Gamer wrote:You need two of them? Are you kidding me, they have absurd dps which fires in bursts and at really long range while moving really fast and having AV and frag grenades. They're such a beastly unit.


Agreed with Torpid and Riku. They're squishy as fuck but they're a glass cannon with range. They are fantastic.
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby SirSid » Mon 06 Jan, 2014 11:55 am

yha u guys are right, just 1 is a very nice unit to add to a army.

However to get them in the time frame u want them at i ususaly find it means forgoing the lemun russ , hence i want 2.

if u wait till after a lemun russ then u are probley swimming in power and are best served getting heavey power unit or saving for a super unit.

getting a fast t3 then 2 fast Kasrkin can be very effective . especialy sicne u can switch out the chimars role from guardsmen transport to 2x kasrkin 1x chatachans . This unit combo in a chimara is scary since it has both close and long range kockback and scary burst damage .
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Faultron » Mon 06 Jan, 2014 1:41 pm

SirSid wrote:yha u guys are right, just 1 is a very nice unit to add to a army.

However to get them in the time frame u want them at i ususaly find it means forgoing the lemun russ , hence i want 2.

if u wait till after a lemun russ then u are probley swimming in power and are best served getting heavey power unit or saving for a super unit.

getting a fast t3 then 2 fast Kasrkin can be very effective . especialy sicne u can switch out the chimars role from guardsmen transport to 2x kasrkin 1x chatachans . This unit combo in a chimara is scary since it has both close and long range kockback and scary burst damage .


u cant just buy fast 2 kasrkin ... dats 900 req+upgrades or is ig eco different:)?
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Tex » Mon 06 Jan, 2014 1:45 pm

I also have a pretty detailed set of ideas about how karskins could be changed positively to make them a bit more desirable compared to the leman russ. Unfortunately I don't have time to add it in right now.

Soon!
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Orkfaeller » Mon 06 Jan, 2014 9:46 pm

Commissar Yarrick wrote:Cadian Karskin reinforcements (T3 IG global): 300 Red, 450/45

Send Valkyrie drop cadian karskin elites on the field


But Kasrkin are Grenadiers, not Stormtroopers.
Grenadiers dont get deployed via Dropships.
That would be a minor alteration of the fluff :,(
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Nuclear Arbitor » Tue 07 Jan, 2014 3:33 am

like 3 man tac squads
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Commissar Yarrick » Tue 07 Jan, 2014 4:44 pm

Orkfaeller wrote:
Commissar Yarrick wrote:Cadian Karskin reinforcements (T3 IG global): 300 Red, 450/45

Send Valkyrie drop cadian karskin elites on the field


But Kasrkin are Grenadiers, not Stormtroopers.
Grenadiers dont get deployed via Dropships.
That would be a minor alteration of the fluff :,(


They are ELITE stormtroopers, aka. Karskin. Just because they are named and trained in different ways does not mean they cannot utulise tactics of various forms. Encluding Valkyrie drops like Stormtroopers do.

While still storm troopers, Kasrkin operate with their own unique pattern of hellgun and carapace armour.


Link: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Stormtrooper#Kasrkin
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Re: Kasrkin

Postby Bahamut » Tue 07 Jan, 2014 6:10 pm

"The Kasrkin are elite troops of the Imperial Guard and are dedicated to the security of the Fortress World of Cadia from which they hail. Because they are elite special forces troops drawn from the same world as the existing Cadian Shock Troops Regiments of the Imperial Guard, the Kasrkin are officially classified by the Departmento Munitorum as the type of Storm Troopers known as Grenadiers because of their heavy weapons and elite tactical training. Their name comes from the title of the fortress cities of Cadia, which are called "Kasrs" in the native Cadian dialect of Low Gothic. The Kasrkin are the elite of the already skilled Cadian planetary military forces and are chosen to serve in the Imperial Guard when they are still serving as Whiteshields (new recruits) in the Cadian Planetary Defence Forces. Their training is more than a match for that provided to the elite Imperial Storm Troopers (Kasrkin are the Cadian equivalent of the Storm Troopers) and they are utterly dedicated to the preservation of Cadia, whereas Imperial Storm Troopers are indoctrinated to provide for the defence of the entire Imperium of Man. Kasrkin soldiers are well-known amongst the Storm Trooper regiments assigned to Cadia, and are renowned for their ability to remain cool under fire in combat situations where even many other veteran Cadian Guardsmen would break. "

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Kasrkin

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