Please explain to me how IG T1 does not suck

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Cheah18
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Please explain to me how IG T1 does not suck

Postby Cheah18 » Thu 29 Nov, 2018 6:24 pm

So as far as my imperfect perception can see, it sort of feels like picking IG in a 1v1 just involves getting bumfucked unit by unit or losing map control so totally that you just can't keep up resources.

Wholeheartedly believe the knowledgeable community and balance guys know better, so I would just like to have the info revealed to me.

What I feel is that either you have to commit 2-3 interdependent units to be able to fight effectively, or the enemy just kites or bleeds your GM kinda hard. But then on maps like Gorge you just have their cap units and what not run around capping things while you try hold one part of the map against a commander and a ranged unit. A GM unit can't take advantage of coverage to punish generators and stuff, unless investing in flamers which is lame for the most part.

Of course different races are good at different things, but is T1 SM supposed to bum T1 IG this hard? I'm trying to analyse it myself but can't see much counterplay at all.
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Broodwich
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Re: Please explain to me how IG T1 does not suck

Postby Broodwich » Thu 29 Nov, 2018 9:08 pm

you're gonna have to be more specific, but no. It usually is the other way around
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Crewfinity
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Re: Please explain to me how IG T1 does not suck

Postby Crewfinity » Fri 30 Nov, 2018 12:05 am

I have very strong feelings about this :)

IG T1 lives and dies by Sentinel usage. That unit is the key to dominating the map with IG. No other race has a T1 vehicle that can decap, and the sentinel allows you to put out a significant amount of early game pressure. playing against well-microed sentinel in T1 can be the most frustrating thing in the game... except for playing against 2 well-microed sentinels 0_o

General Strategy
Sentinel should always be your front-line unit, since you can repair any damage it suffers, allowing you to out-bleed your opponent. Sentinels allow you to take the role of the aggressor, with your other units acting to hold the map and grind down pushes while the sentinel pressures. you can set the pace of the game and direct the enemy's attention, since the sent can kite around melee units and outshoot ranged units with repair support - YOU get to choose how it functions, and the enemy has to react to it. IG is the best faction at holding ground, but they are not as good at making pushes, due to the lack of T1 melee units. You should not be trying to make big pushes to force the enemy off, instead you should be constantly bleeding them with sentinels and directing them into making pushes against the ground that you hold/fortify. IG units are fantastic at forcing off pushes due the the variety of tools that IG has, and as soon as the enemy makes a bad push you can punish and push up while he retreats. As you force off their pushes and inflict bleed, you can capture more of the map and translate that into map control. As much as possible, you want to predict where the enemy will make pushes, and direct him to advance into areas where you have better positioning.


Tactics/Tips:
  • Always make sure that your sentinel is pointing towards the enemy and firing, even if moving backwards (do this by moving it back in small amounts continuously rather than a single large move)
  • Always make sure that your sentinel is either decapping, or shooting - you need to maximize its field presence and hurt the enemy economy. it is very fast so you can always send it off to the flanks of the map to scout where the enemy units are and bleed them
  • In any lull in fighting, always send your sentinel around to decap points - then you can follow up with GM squads to capture while the sentinel moves on. In particular you want to focus on decapping the enemys natural req points in the early game to slow down their economy
  • Using your sentinel to scout where the enemy high impact units are, you can anticipate pushes and move your units together to force them off
  • your sentinel functions similarly to rangers - it inflicts model losses and economic pressure and forces the enemy to respond - simply trading fire with the sentinel doesnt work because you can repair it back up while it inflicts model losses
  • If the enemy has melee units - those should generally be a very high priority target. You want to try to hit them with a stomp and focus down with GM/hero
  • If the enemy tries to outshoot you (double shootas, multiple setup teams, double tacs) - purchase an arty spotter squad to counter ranged blobs
  • If the enemy tries to swarm you with melee, your best tools are catachans, HWT, and sentinel stomp
  • against durable, disruptive units/heroes such as ASM/warboss, your priority should be knowing where they are at all times with scouting, and constantly chipping away at their health with sentinels when possible to weaken them for engagements. When they make a push, try to lure them into an advantageous position (units spread out and in cover, HWT setup behind you) - then hit them with a stomp and focus fire as much as possible. your hero is generally a very good tool against these sort of units as well
  • HWT in general work very well in conjunction with sentinels - you can bait the enemy into a push against your sentinel, and get them into the HWT field of fire. Once suppressed, you can move in your sent to disrupt with a stomp. I usually prefer to get HWT by default to help hold map, and catachans/spotters as necessary

  • If the enemy takes cover with ranged units, you have several options to counter that play:
    • move the sentinel to max range and repair with GM behind it, allowing you to inflict bleed while not suffering any
    • move the sentinel up to the unit to destroy their cover, then pull back to max range and repair with gm
    • move the sentinel up to the unit and stomp them, following closely with other units to force a retreat
    • send the sentinel across the map to find more juicy/vulnerable targets and force the enemy to reposition



  • Additional tips/tactics for improving your positioning in preparation for an enemy push:
    • If the enemy tries to make a push, decide if you are in a good position or not. If not, just back your sentinel up at max range and continue to pew pew while you reposition your units.
    • GM are unique in the game in that they are the only squad that can create cover. GREEN cover, even! You should ALWAYS have you GM squads throw down some cover before you try to fend off a push. Do not blob up your GM squads - spread them out, and have each squad create a cover or two (that's generally enough for the full squad to get into green cover)
    • Sentinel should be used to constantly apply chip damage to the enemy units as they break cover to advance, and is also your "panic button" - when you're on the verge of getting overwhelmed or you're ready to turn the tide, the sentinel stomp should be used to maximum effect stun+knockback is amazing at giving you space to regroup or punish an overextended unit
    • Depending upon the enemy composition, you'll generally either want your hero to hang back in order to counter their initiating/bully units, or you want to try to have them hanging around ready to flank in behind the enemy and split their focus by getting stuck into the back line
    • multilaser turrets are also a cheap and quick way to get additional firepower to stop an enemy push - you can always scrap them later for a refund if you want. Its very easy to underestimate the damage that a multilas turret puts out, but it adds up quickly
    • catachans are great at disrupting pushes, as long as you keep them near the back of your formation - you can use their smoke grenade to ensure your ranged units take minimal damage and are suppression immune, you can plant an IED ahead of time and bait the enemy advance in that direction to stop their momentum, and their shotgun/grenade launcher provides fantastic disruption. They are also a very sturdy counter-melee unit against tough enemies like ASM
    • HWT is great at tying these fortifications and units together and giving you some staying power in the face of an advance


Some specific tips vs SM:
Be VERY aggressive with your sent early on - first priority should be scouts. Sentinel is very good at bleeding scouts, and without them on the field SM eco moves MUCH slower. try to keep the scouts off the field and keep their natural req points decapped. After forcing scouts back your next target is the enemy hero - putting in some chip damage to help with first engagement. sent is fast enough to pull tacs all over the map, forcing them to chase you until you're ready to commit to a fight. Sent stomp should be your first power purchase, and once you get that you can commit to a first engagement and force off tacs. You generally want your hero to be tying up tacs, while your other units pew pew the hero. landing a good stomp is critical to winning the first engagement - once you force off the tacs you can cap up the rest of the map while your sentinel decaps enemy natural points and bullies scouts.
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Torpid
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Re: Please explain to me how IG T1 does not suck

Postby Torpid » Fri 30 Nov, 2018 12:51 am

IG are amazing.

Best T3, best fully invested T2. Best initial early game, but they are bad if you get into a very heavy t1. The trick is being able to do maximal pressure right at the t1 start and either fast tech without leaving yourself vulnerable to a bash OR not committing too heavily into the t1.

Honestly, you don't even need sentinels, I have beat more or less every high level player going 3x or even 4x guardsmen into catachan/spotter or even HWT/spotter. Guardsmen just trade so effectively vs ranged units and with that many of them you have a lot of capping power.

Now, it shall be said IG units are terrible 1on1, except the sent and catachans. Rely on them. Use the rolling thunder power-force of your 2x GM+sent to fight in a blob whilst your hero solo-caps and some t1.5 and another GM does the capping. You can't let yourself split up into isolated squads for a long time or you will lose. If you do feel you need to do that support the isolated squads with lines of las-turrets that you can fall back to, therefore giving some a means of temporary support.

IG don't really have a gen-bashing problem, even lasgun guardsmen don't bash particularly slowly. Drop a las-turret, put yourself into deployable cover, now you're basically immune to piercing dps on a 900+hp t1 squad doing more than 60dps to the gens. And flamers are legitimate weapon upgrades vs tyranids and orks too, especially if you go 3x GM, which you should.

I should say though. I think SM are the 2nd hardest MU for IG. After eldar of course. And eldar T1 is probably easier than SM in t1. But that's map dependent.
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appiah4
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Re: Please explain to me how IG T1 does not suck

Postby appiah4 » Sun 03 Mar, 2019 10:29 pm

If anything IG T1 is the most annoying and OP T1 to play against these days, IMO..
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Element
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Re: Please explain to me how IG T1 does not suck

Postby Element » Sun 03 Mar, 2019 10:46 pm

Ranked T1
--------------
1.) Eldar- Advanced in everything.
2.) Orks- Mobility/don't bleed to heavily when utilized properly/Heavy amounts of ridiculously crazed D.P.S/best Unit Choice Option Roster in the Game (I.M.O. anyways going forwards) Globals are phenominal/all the commanders are capable of performing well in the right situations.
5.) Space Marines- Utility--> (Scouts)
3.) Chaos- Decent Mobility/Sturdy Units>even cultist once you attain the champion/Heavy Damage Output/good amount of utility/Commanders with worship make the game in itself.
4.) Tyranids- Pressure/really don't take too many model losses/absorb model losses easily once they begin to horde, have good damage output capabilities in ranged and melee departments. Commanders really discern the playstyle for this faction and what you can really do, given their respective ways in which to carry out their type of role.
6.) Imperial Guard- Very Pressure Oriented. You have to be able to utilize your builds well. Really need to have an in-depth knowledge regarding how to play them effectively in most match-ups but are rewarding once you learn to use them. Their T2 reliably can outgun-line M.E.Q. factions with plasma. And 2x- Lemans is a winning end game given you still have all your units from earlier tiers until this point unless you are playing Eldar andvTtyranids in almost any match up
7.) Grey Knights- live by the stormtroopers, and Special Operatives. Die by the Loss of the Brother Captain.


All-toether I personally would say, they require a player that really is more so in-depth with know how to best utilize builds, pushes, bashes, (Necessity of Upgrades) & (Commander Wargear--> their commanders are very crucial to doing well in the game especially higher mid- late tiers.) If they aren't fully upgraded with wargear, I'd suggest you start.

I.G.- best against S.M., ~Grey Knights, & Tyranids, wants nothing to do with, Eldar, Orks, & Chaos...The main difference being, they really suffer under heavy amounts of Hard Pressed ranged D.P.S, mass amounts of armor/A.o.E. damage abilities/Teleportation, Synergy etc.
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