Tyranid vs SM late-game

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Telos
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Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby Telos » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 8:02 am

I'm trying to figure out best options for dealing with SM T3 options as Nids.

I can do pretty well with the nid blob from T1-T2 and even bash his eco a bit, but if I can't seal the deal while he's in T2 then things start going downhill really fast. Once Termies hit the field it becomes really difficult to deal with his Marines and hero while microing my synapse creatures out of harm's way. I thought TB Fex could deal with Termies but it seems it'll lose in melee unless I'm able to support it which I have trouble doing while also dealing with the rest of his army. I've tried rippers to tie up his range but they only tie them up for about two seconds unless I mass them which isn't very cost efficient. I've tried using the Neurothrope to deal with them but again I can't seem to micro enough to make it worthwhile.

What's the best way to deal with the SM late-game pressure? Is the answer to just rush a Swarmlord? Do late-game genestealers work? Is there some wargear I should have on my hero (I use Hive Tyrant usually against SM)?
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Torpid
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby Torpid » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 4:29 pm

You can't.

You need a neurothrope+melee fex to kill terminators.

Nids lose to terms+pred.
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boss
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby boss » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 8:16 pm

Well since the venom cannon fex lost it splash damage and the terminators size change nids now are weak to terminators now you can thank torpid for this, venom fexs were one of the ways to deal with them along with barbed strangler fexs tho that's take a long time since slow firing rate.

Only real way you can deal with terminators now are barbed strangler fexs which will take a long time slow rate of fire and a Neurothrope which will take a while to, melee fexs won't work simply lasscanon will stop it, again thank torpid for this since these was his changes for tyranids.

Preds only real way to kill them was venom fexs and still are tho again venom fexs are now really risky since they only can damage one thing at range now and cost just under a super unit for this great again dumb fucking change losing it splash damage and made it next to useless vs anything else even tho it cost 700 rec and 185 power again thanks torpid good changers.

Genestealers don't really work out much more since generally you want the melee synapse for them and now your only snare you have on the warriors now and add to fact adrenal rush got nerf too. Genestealers without melee synapse are like Sluggas without a nob leader shit even tho genestealers are an elite melee unit they say :lol:.

But like I say thank torpid the way tyranids are atm
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Dark Riku
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby Dark Riku » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 8:56 pm

Geezus christ.

Nids are fine.
Grow up you two.

@Telos.
As Nids you should try to win in T2 vs SM. It's not unwinnable in T3 though. The neurothrope is excellent vs terminators. The thornback fex is amazing, don't let anyone else fool you. Combined with the free ripper spawn and maybe one from a tower, you should be able to tie up any ranged AV. Rest comes down to micro and experience. Wargear also depends on the situation.
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 11:01 pm

Termies are inefficient versus a Swarmlord. Preds are better versus it. Don't get a Swarmlord if he has Preds.
Atlas

Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby Atlas » Tue 28 Aug, 2018 4:43 am

You used Venom Cannon Fexes to fight Terminators O.o

I'm not too familiar with this scenario to say a lot of advice on it, but I think in 2.9 the intention is for the Neurothrope to be the primary anti-terminator/armored infantry blob counter. The rest is probably Fex when talking lategame. But Fexes can do a bit of everything with their upgrades so idk.
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Telos
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby Telos » Tue 28 Aug, 2018 7:09 am

So in battles where I can keep SM in T2 or wrap things up by the time he reaches T3 I can win. The problem is games that drag out and my dominant position in T2 rapidly evaporates as his T3 units hit the field.

Ok, the general consensus is the Neurothrope I think?

Then I'd like advice on prioritizing its abilities because it has a lot and they're somewhat confusing for me.

I assume that Paroxysm is a must use vs termies, but should I start with that or wait until I've engaged the termies in melee with something? Should I engage them in melee or just try to outshoot them? Gaunts don't really last long enough under SM focus to get into range anyway so should I just use them as back cappers during fights or there's a better way I can use them in the blob?

After paroxysm then I should use absorb life and then spirit leech? Or spirit leech and then absorb life? Is it better to focus the Neurothrope's abilities on the termies or try to save them to also hit his other squads as well? It's a lot to use on a single unit so I'm wondering what's most efficient.

@dark riku So Thornback is the answer to terms so long as it has support? I've tried using rippers to tie up their range that focuses it but they die so fast even when they get into melee. Although I guess one from a tower and one from the fex is still cost efficient. But it seems hard to really win if he can also get out a pred or dred to support his termies. Is it better to win the initial battle and instead of retreating the TB fex just drive it into his base and cause havoc long enough to win? Is trading a TB fex for his Termies worth it? They're around the same price so it seems like it could be cost efficient so long as I'm sure they'll die.
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby boss » Tue 28 Aug, 2018 11:46 am

Atlas wrote:You used Venom Cannon Fexes to fight Terminators O.o

I'm not too familiar with this scenario to say a lot of advice on it, but I think in 2.9 the intention is for the Neurothrope to be the primary anti-terminator/armored infantry blob counter. The rest is probably Fex when talking lategame. But Fexes can do a bit of everything with their upgrades so idk.


You might think that barbed strangler cos plasma cannon damage but slow rate of fire and slow moving object means even terminators can doge it somewhat.
Venom fexs where 200 damage straight up at much longer range as well along with the old bio plasma used to do plasma cannon damage so yea venom fexs was one of the main range ways to deal with them till they got nuke to shit levels thanks torpid.

Also you are wrong too only the barbed strangler does a bit of everything, thornback its better than what it used to be but still don't think it worth the cost for it still and we all know how useful venom fexs are worst t3 unit in the game that only does 1 role and fuck all to anything else great unit for god I wish old venom fex was back 700rec 185power buff it ffs
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boss
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby boss » Tue 28 Aug, 2018 12:10 pm

Neurothrope vs terminators use paroxysm whenever you can cooldown not too long for it but like I say you have to use this a few times before the damage starts to show if you still have termagants around use the slow on them then use paroxysm on them its the easiest combo to use.

The spirit leech locks the model you use it on in place you can't retreat from spirit leech tho so remember that, its good for dealing with hero's as well.

Absorb life use it when any infantry around the Neurothrope it damages all and heals it self and lets it regeneration energy, always use it when anything in range.

Cataclysm mainly for blobs and kb the damage over time on the ground is psychic damage it ok for terminators as well.
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Telos
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby Telos » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 10:29 am

Thanks boss.

Does Spirit Leech stop a whole squad or just a single model in the squad? Is there any reason to not use paroxysm, followed by absorb life and then spirit leech all on a single termie squad?
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby PianoMan » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 12:08 pm

just spam thornback fexes and hope for the best, neuro gets knocked back once and its ded cus apparently the unit cant retreat when knockeddown
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boss
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby boss » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 8:56 pm

Telos wrote:Thanks boss.

Does Spirit Leech stop a whole squad or just a single model in the squad? Is there any reason to not use paroxysm, followed by absorb life and then spirit leech all on a single termie squad?



Spirit only stops one model you can also use this on Avatars or Great Unclean One to lock them just remember you can't retreat when you use this.

By all means use all the abilitys on termis you can regen energy very fast then you use leech and absorb life cooldowns not to long for any of it's abilitys.
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Telos
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby Telos » Thu 30 Aug, 2018 6:23 am

PianoMan wrote:just spam thornback fexes and hope for the best, neuro gets knocked back once and its ded cus apparently the unit cant retreat when knockeddown


Hmm, in this situation the most fexes I could get out are about 2 (and that's if I play exceptionally well) and making them both TB seems not so great as they'd both be countered by a single pred no?
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Telos
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby Telos » Thu 30 Aug, 2018 8:21 am

boss wrote:Spirit only stops one model you can also use this on Avatars or Great Unclean One to lock them just remember you can't retreat when you use this.

By all means use all the abilitys on termis you can regen energy very fast then you use leech and absorb life cooldowns not to long for any of it's abilitys.


Oh shit, that's really good to know! More valuable for team games I think, I've never encountered a GUO or Ava in 1v1
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby PianoMan » Thu 30 Aug, 2018 9:49 am

Telos wrote:
PianoMan wrote:just spam thornback fexes and hope for the best, neuro gets knocked back once and its ded cus apparently the unit cant retreat when knockeddown


Hmm, in this situation the most fexes I could get out are about 2 (and that's if I play exceptionally well) and making them both TB seems not so great as they'd both be countered by a single pred no?

and venom cannon still gets rekt and doesn't offer anything on top of it, you need some dank charge and some dank flanks with warrior snares otherwise you're not dealing with t3 sm though im talking from a 1v1 perspective
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Telos
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby Telos » Fri 31 Aug, 2018 11:45 am

Is two TB fexes better than a TB and BS fex? That's what I usually do since the BS Fex is quite good if he has a big infantry mass, esp against scouts, and its damage to vehicles isn't insignificant although it won't outshoot a pred. But I usually have at least one venom brood out by the time he has a pred or dred.
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boss
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby boss » Thu 06 Sep, 2018 7:10 pm

I say you only want 1 of each, tho 2 barbed strangler been the most common build for t3 since they are the most reliable of the fexs.
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby ElSlayer » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:50 pm

My problem in using Neurothrope vs Terms is their teleport. I definitely have not best micro in the world, but every time I've tried to engage them, they just teleport in melee to Neuro and wreck him, forcing him retreat.
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Torpid
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby Torpid » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 7:08 pm

ElSlayer wrote:My problem in using Neurothrope vs Terms is their teleport. I definitely have not best micro in the world, but every time I've tried to engage them, they just teleport in melee to Neuro and wreck him, forcing him retreat.


Don't have him on his own vs termies, he's more of a support unit. If you have your nid blob and you use paroxysm on youself when they do then then move away with the shield up they're kinda screwed. Crippling poison can stack with it to totally immobilise the terms and then they get enveloped with melee.
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Dark Riku
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Re: Tyranid vs SM late-game

Postby Dark Riku » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 9:15 pm

Neurothrope doesn't have a shield Torpid.

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