how to beat IG as Space Marines

Strategy and L2P topics.
ManOfWar
Level 0
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed 04 Jul, 2018 5:09 pm

how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby ManOfWar » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 5:12 pm

Howdy,

I main Space Marine and I've been having trouble beating Imperial Guard, especially the commisar when playing as Force Commander.

1 dev, 1 asm, 1 tact squad doesn't seem to work...

Do I need to pick a different commander like the tech marine and go double tectical marines with shotgun scouts or something?

P.S. this is in 3v3 games
User avatar
Dark Riku
Level 5
Posts: 3082
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 10:48 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Dark Riku » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 11:22 pm

Try tac, tac, dev, shield.
User avatar
Psycho
Level 3
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu 24 Dec, 2015 3:08 am

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Psycho » Thu 05 Jul, 2018 1:08 am

1v1 or 3v3?
User avatar
Oddnerd
Level 4
Posts: 727
Joined: Mon 27 Oct, 2014 1:50 am

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Oddnerd » Thu 05 Jul, 2018 1:24 am

I dont play a lot of SM but when I played against SM as IG I remember some of the tactics that worked well. Riku's suggestion is a solid one - the amount of piercing damage that 2 tacs and a Fc with the stormshield active can absorb is incredible, allowing you to beat the IG player at his own game. Make sure the devs shut down melee commanders if they try to close the gap and GM in other situations.
User avatar
egewithin
Level 5
Posts: 1144
Joined: Mon 26 Jan, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby egewithin » Thu 05 Jul, 2018 1:46 am

Stormshield is a super option to counter IG, since IG can't do anything without their firepower. You can basicially focus fire LC if he charges to you, same for the Sentinal. Get you banner in T2 and buff everything around you. BAM! Immortal walking death army in your disposal.

Also, Riku's build is very practical. I would prefer double tacs over double devs against IG, since they have access to Manticores, you would have less struggle to dodge them. Also you can get double missile launcher to insta kill a Chimera in T2. Yeah that costs 80 power maybe, but breaking spine of IG is totaly worth the cost. Same thing for Leman Russ and Baneblade in T3.
PianoMan
Level 3
Posts: 404
Joined: Fri 30 Jun, 2017 12:40 pm

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby PianoMan » Thu 05 Jul, 2018 9:39 am

just play the matchup more, try different shit and find what works for you, can't really help you here since we don't know what skill level you play at, what build the commisar has and all the other bullshit, just play more games and try shit out, sm have plenty of options
just dont listen to ege xd
User avatar
Dark Riku
Level 5
Posts: 3082
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 10:48 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Dark Riku » Thu 05 Jul, 2018 12:06 pm

Psycho wrote:1v1 or 3v3?
Read the OP...
ManOfWar
Level 0
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed 04 Jul, 2018 5:09 pm

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby ManOfWar » Thu 05 Jul, 2018 4:05 pm

Thanks Fellas,

The stormshield has really upped my game for sure.

I think whenever I lane against IG i'll go 2 tact, stormshield, with 1 dev to fight off any cheeky melee.
User avatar
Psycho
Level 3
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu 24 Dec, 2015 3:08 am

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Psycho » Thu 05 Jul, 2018 5:59 pm

Dark Riku wrote:
Psycho wrote:1v1 or 3v3?
Read the OP...


Reading is for faggots anyways.
Paranoid Kamikaze
Level 4
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue 02 Feb, 2016 5:12 am

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Thu 05 Jul, 2018 6:24 pm

Stormshield for team games. Banner in T2
2 Tacs works but watch how you use them. How long they stay in base healing is the reason I usually only ever make 1
Don't be afraid to melee Guardsmen with Tacs
Shotguns on Scouts and blast the Commissar once his shield is down
Vengeance Rounds on Dev against Sentinels. Put FTE on them if the Sentinels go towards you. Murders them
Hammer if Ogryns
Whirlwind is good at knocking them around

Chimeras are a giant hassle to deal with as SM. If you don't 1 shot or heavily damage them Guardsmen will just use their super repair to keep them up. Study your buffs on AV to get the most damage possible. Melta bombs for example do 150 * 1.5 for rear * 1.25 with FTE * 1.25 with Banner = 351. You can add in Battlecry as well plus your strikes. Add this with a buffed Missile Tac and it's an actual 1 shot unlike 2 Missile Tacs. Melta lands where you click on the vehicle btw, which is needed to buff it up to such high numbers with the rear hit
User avatar
Cheekie Monkie
Level 3
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu 09 Jan, 2014 2:58 pm

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Cheekie Monkie » Sat 07 Jul, 2018 8:39 pm

Paranoid Kamikaze wrote:Chimeras are a giant hassle to deal with as SM. If you don't 1 shot or heavily damage them Guardsmen will just use their super repair to keep them up. Study your buffs on AV to get the most damage possible. Melta bombs for example do 150 * 1.5 for rear * 1.25 with FTE * 1.25 with Banner = 351. You can add in Battlecry as well plus your strikes. Add this with a buffed Missile Tac and it's an actual 1 shot unlike 2 Missile Tacs. Melta lands where you click on the vehicle btw, which is needed to buff it up to such high numbers with the rear hit

This is why I still swear by 1-1-1-1 vs IG in elite, it's very difficult to hunt down a chimera with just a lascannon and tacs.

Overall I'd say it depends on your personal playstyle (e.g. I never get missile tacs) as well as your and your opponent's teammate, as well as the map you're playing on. A stormshield + banner reaches maximum effectiveness when both sides commit to a group shooting match, but I still prefer the sledgehammer approach of librarian + ASM whenever possible.
Playing truth or dare with Diomedes: You dare? YOU DARE?!
Tinder with Diomedes: THINK YOU ARE MY MATCH?!
LOCALgHOST
Level 3
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon 15 Jan, 2018 2:48 pm

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby LOCALgHOST » Sun 08 Jul, 2018 4:56 pm

lascannon got 37-40 dps, guardsmen got 40dps repair - so never got lascannon alone, if u don't get it with buffs/melta

for TM it's meltagun FTW, missile tacs + melta works well; chimera is a pain as a falcon for SM, buffed melta always needed for killin'

shotguns got nice performance on sentinel if it goes too far

also HPS on TM is death on sentinel - just 120-130 hp go sniping and DPS of MCB is nice for get Sent down
PianoMan
Level 3
Posts: 404
Joined: Fri 30 Jun, 2017 12:40 pm

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby PianoMan » Sun 08 Jul, 2018 5:23 pm

LOCALgHOST wrote:lascannon got 37-40 dps, guardsmen got 40dps repair - so never got lascannon alone, if u don't get it with buffs/melta

for TM it's meltagun FTW, missile tacs + melta works well; chimera is a pain as a falcon for SM, buffed melta always needed for killin'

shotguns got nice performance on sentinel if it goes too far

also HPS on TM is death on sentinel - just 120-130 hp go sniping and DPS of MCB is nice for get Sent down

lascannon shit av confirmed
melta tm
missile tacs
shotguns against senti
10/10 troll post
User avatar
Torpid
Moderator
Posts: 3536
Joined: Sat 01 Jun, 2013 12:09 pm
Location: England, Leeds

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Torpid » Sun 08 Jul, 2018 11:42 pm

LOCALgHOST wrote:lascannon got 37-40 dps, guardsmen got 40dps repair - so never got lascannon alone, if u don't get it with buffs/melta


Guardsmen repair for 30hp/s not 40. Only the first GM repairing a unit heals for 20hp/s.

Ty for talking from experience in-game.
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
User avatar
Psycho
Level 3
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu 24 Dec, 2015 3:08 am

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Psycho » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 1:04 am

I use apo as SM vs IG, but if the input for that hero is valid too, what I generally do is go double tacs into devs. If it's required, sniper for the scouts and bolter for the apo. The two tacs in heavy cover with healing support are a bitch to dislodge, and with devs thrown in it gets even more difficult since they can't rush in as easily. Double kraken bolts can deal with the sentinel out-dpsing the repair, so they can no longer just stick the sentinel at max range while repairing it, much less with your apo passively healing your tacs.

Sniper scout deals bonus damage to the sentinel and can also bleed catas and spotters, and HWT if you're both patient and lucky enough to be in a position to just shoot them without them shooting your sniper due to your tacs+dev line. Apo bolter can also stun LC and Inq if they try bumrushing in, making it easier to focus them down with your murderblob.

Come T2 you get double sergeants on your tacs for more dps and hp, and with how the damage is gonna be spread also to the sergeant your passive heal might be a bit more efficient as it heals damage spread to four models instead of three. If they get a chimera, you turn your devs into a lascannon, and your murderblob of double tac serg + apo + sniper can deal with the guardsmen support efficiently enough that it's not gonna stay there to tank the engagement, much less if you also pop advanced healing through apothecarion. You're not gonna kill it, but you'll basically scare him from ever using it, even moreso with the godawful pathfinding involved in moving a vehicle with 20+ guardsmen around it trying to repair if it wants to get out of lascannon range.

This worked more often than not for me. Chances are it'll fail horribly if your opponent predicts it, but that also goes for most strategies.
LOCALgHOST
Level 3
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon 15 Jan, 2018 2:48 pm

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby LOCALgHOST » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 4:28 am

PianoMan wrote:lascannon shit av confirmed
melta tm
missile tacs
shotguns against senti
10/10 troll post


/trollmode on ... /trollmode off

You could shoot chimera all day long with lascannon - the just repair it faster, than you damage it.

I’ve beaten a man to the ground with shotguns yesterday. Lol, he posted first game, and hadn’t post the second. Sad, i can’t throw a rep to your face )
Last edited by LOCALgHOST on Mon 09 Jul, 2018 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
LOCALgHOST
Level 3
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon 15 Jan, 2018 2:48 pm

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby LOCALgHOST » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 4:30 am

Torpid wrote:
LOCALgHOST wrote:lascannon got 37-40 dps, guardsmen got 40dps repair - so never got lascannon alone, if u don't get it with buffs/melta


Guardsmen repair for 30hp/s not 40. Only the first GM repairing a unit heals for 20hp/s.

Ty for talking from experience in-game.


How’s that possible? This is same units? And why the lascannon won’t kill it then?

2 Paranoid Kamikaze:
Wow! Thanks, i just win the game that way!
Never knew it before.
PianoMan
Level 3
Posts: 404
Joined: Fri 30 Jun, 2017 12:40 pm

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby PianoMan » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 11:08 am

LOCALgHOST wrote:
PianoMan wrote:lascannon shit av confirmed
melta tm
missile tacs
shotguns against senti
10/10 troll post


/trollmode on ... /trollmode off

You could shoot chimera all day long with lascannon - the just repair it faster, than you damage it.

I’ve beaten a man to the ground with shotguns yesterday. Lol, he posted first game, and hadn’t post the second. Sad, i can’t throw a rep to your face )


you're giving shitty advice that doesn't work, you're the one trolling xd
Phoenix
Moderator
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed 13 Nov, 2013 2:58 am

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Phoenix » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 11:26 am

SM Lascannon does 33 Dps vs vehicles, GM heal for 30 Hp/s.

So technically you can kill a 500 hp Chimera in 500/3= 166,66s :P

First GM squad to repair a vehicle repairs with 20 Hp/s, any additional only with 10 Hp/s, hence why 2 GM repairing a chimera adds up to 30 Hp/s.
User avatar
Asmon
Level 4
Posts: 890
Joined: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 8:01 pm

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Asmon » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 3:22 pm

This calculation is wrong since GM repair steadily over time while lascannon shoots in bursts, so you'll kill the chimera faster than what you said. Not that it matters so much, since as others pointed out you'll need more than one AV squad.
User avatar
Psycho
Level 3
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu 24 Dec, 2015 3:08 am

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Psycho » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 9:38 pm

If you're fighting a chimera and 2 GMs with a lascannon alone, you're obviously gonna fucking lose. The idea is that you kill off his repair support while pressuring the chimera with the lascannon, since without it he can just put the aforementioned repair support in the chimera to shoot at you with impunity instead of leaving it out to get shot at.
LOCALgHOST
Level 3
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon 15 Jan, 2018 2:48 pm

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby LOCALgHOST » Fri 13 Jul, 2018 11:51 am

Psycho wrote:If you're fighting a chimera and 2 GMs with a lascannon alone, you're obviously gonna fucking lose. The idea is that you kill off his repair support while pressuring the chimera with the lascannon, since without it he can just put the aforementioned repair support in the chimera to shoot at you with impunity instead of leaving it out to get shot at.


try to do it with 2x leaders upgraded plasma GM and commie messing around :)
User avatar
Codex
Moderator
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed 01 May, 2013 5:57 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Codex » Fri 13 Jul, 2018 4:37 pm

All things considered it's not a great matchup for SM, but FC storm shield is a great equaliser.
Righteousness does not make right
User avatar
Nurland
Moderator
Posts: 1343
Joined: Mon 04 Feb, 2013 5:25 pm
Location: Eye of Error
Contact:

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Nurland » Sun 15 Jul, 2018 12:50 pm

You jump in ASM and/or TeleFC or use Sterns/pdevs or WW to fuck over the GM repair and a lascannon kills the Chim pretty fast (especially with FTE/BC/Standard buffs which can rather easily buff the lascannon to 50+dps).
#noobcodex
User avatar
Psycho
Level 3
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu 24 Dec, 2015 3:08 am

Re: how to beat IG as Space Marines

Postby Psycho » Sun 15 Jul, 2018 10:43 pm

LOCALgHOST wrote:
Psycho wrote:If you're fighting a chimera and 2 GMs with a lascannon alone, you're obviously gonna fucking lose. The idea is that you kill off his repair support while pressuring the chimera with the lascannon, since without it he can just put the aforementioned repair support in the chimera to shoot at you with impunity instead of leaving it out to get shot at.


try to do it with 2x leaders upgraded plasma GM and commie messing around :)


You're assuming I haven't. One fancy bug/feature of repair is that the models straight up freeze in place and ignore everything but knockback, so if they're facing the opposite direction from where the enemy is, they won't turn. More strangely, if one model is getting hit by melee, the other models will not stop shooting in range to engage in melee too.

Return to “Strategy Discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests