SM vs Eldar/IG:

Strategy and L2P topics.
User avatar
TE | NoSkill
Level 3
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed 27 Jul, 2016 3:44 pm

SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby TE | NoSkill » Sun 20 May, 2018 2:58 pm

Since I played a few games again, I noticed I suck hard against those 2 factions.
Exspecially winning the first engagements is hard for me.
Eldar banshees are an big problem without shotguns and it seems I'm reliant to them to deal with banshees.
Imperial Guard focuses down my hero (Apo) or scouts and then it s already over.
And then they go for catachans, which is the anathema to my devastators.
Are ASM needed here?
PianoMan
Level 2
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri 30 Jun, 2017 12:40 pm

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby PianoMan » Sun 20 May, 2018 3:21 pm

you need proper scout usage against eldar, scouts are strong as fuck so learn how to use them xd

dont rush in with apo or scouts then, ig has a stronger t1 so you probably wont win it but you shouldn't have any problems in t2 especially if you get an ac dread out
asms can work against ig but i wouldn't get them against commisar or inq
User avatar
SarDauk
Level 1
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu 17 May, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby SarDauk » Sun 20 May, 2018 7:01 pm

Well got basically the same pb against eldar (except I'm playing FC, so battlecry but no heal), also how do you counter the double rangers play ? It's already not easy for me to deal with DA + banshees, these guys make it practically impossible
"Drive me closer! I want to hit them with my sword!"
User avatar
TE | NoSkill
Level 3
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed 27 Jul, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby TE | NoSkill » Mon 21 May, 2018 12:16 am

SarDauk wrote:Well got basically the same pb against eldar (except I'm playing FC, so battlecry but no heal), also how do you counter the double rangers play ? It's already not easy for me to deal with DA + banshees, these guys make it practically impossible


They remove any threat devastators might hold. I'm afraid, going 1-1-1 is needed there :(
Paranoid Kamikaze
Level 3
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue 02 Feb, 2016 5:12 am

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby Paranoid Kamikaze » Mon 21 May, 2018 5:25 am

SarDauk wrote:Well got basically the same pb against eldar (except I'm playing FC, so battlecry but no heal), also how do you counter the double rangers play ? It's already not easy for me to deal with DA + banshees, these guys make it practically impossible


Artificers + Halo with ASM's. In T2 get a Razer and put Scouts with Sarge in.
LOCALgHOST
Level 2
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon 15 Jan, 2018 2:48 pm

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby LOCALgHOST » Mon 21 May, 2018 9:48 am

Paranoid Kamikaze wrote:
SarDauk wrote:Well got basically the same pb against eldar (except I'm playing FC, so battlecry but no heal), also how do you counter the double rangers play ? It's already not easy for me to deal with DA + banshees, these guys make it practically impossible


Artificers + Halo with ASM's. In T2 get a Razer and put Scouts with Sarge in.


when u get T2 in this build u will face you gens already bashed with falcon.
User avatar
Antandron
Level 2
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat 15 Jul, 2017 11:50 am

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby Antandron » Mon 21 May, 2018 10:47 am

LOCALgHOST wrote:
Paranoid Kamikaze wrote:
SarDauk wrote:Well got basically the same pb against eldar (except I'm playing FC, so battlecry but no heal), also how do you counter the double rangers play ? It's already not easy for me to deal with DA + banshees, these guys make it practically impossible


Artificers + Halo with ASM's. In T2 get a Razer and put Scouts with Sarge in.


when u get T2 in this build u will face you gens already bashed with falcon.


But what about Tac Missile Launcher? It only costs 80/40!
PianoMan
Level 2
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri 30 Jun, 2017 12:40 pm

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby PianoMan » Mon 21 May, 2018 11:15 am

Paranoid Kamikaze wrote:
SarDauk wrote:Well got basically the same pb against eldar (except I'm playing FC, so battlecry but no heal), also how do you counter the double rangers play ? It's already not easy for me to deal with DA + banshees, these guys make it practically impossible


Artificers + Halo with ASM's. In T2 get a Razer and put Scouts with Sarge in.


and waste 55 power on fc who's going to become totally useless in t2 if not in t1 and razorback is just suicude vs eldar xd
nerfeldarplsplspls
LOCALgHOST
Level 2
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon 15 Jan, 2018 2:48 pm

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby LOCALgHOST » Mon 21 May, 2018 12:28 pm

Antandron wrote:
LOCALgHOST wrote:
Paranoid Kamikaze wrote:
Artificers + Halo with ASM's. In T2 get a Razer and put Scouts with Sarge in.


when u get T2 in this build u will face you gens already bashed with falcon.


But what about Tac Missile Launcher? It only costs 80/40!


i bet u never get Falcon with missile launcher in that case. U just never reach it
User avatar
Antandron
Level 2
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat 15 Jul, 2017 11:50 am

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby Antandron » Mon 21 May, 2018 1:07 pm

LOCALgHOST wrote:
Antandron wrote:
LOCALgHOST wrote:
when u get T2 in this build u will face you gens already bashed with falcon.


But what about Tac Missile Launcher? It only costs 80/40!


i bet u never get Falcon with missile launcher in that case. U just never reach it


I was trying to get flamed by suggesting the Tac ML but no-one took the bait.
User avatar
Antandron
Level 2
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat 15 Jul, 2017 11:50 am

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby Antandron » Mon 21 May, 2018 1:26 pm

Possibly bad advice, use at your own risk.

vs Eldar:
If TM get the MCB and snipe the Banshees as they advance.
Apo has an OP bolter which can be used to focus the WL and probably any other unit you want to stun.
FC shield is useful to avoid being knocked over by specials and WL leap.
Tac ML is overcosted (henceforth OC). I was joking about getting them. Sternguard AV is about 30dps vs 17dps for ML and it is possible to switch to the AInf ammo when necessary. Costs a bit more power however.
I guess vs Falcon your best option is to pray really hard. Next best option is a Lascannon, but Rangers will Kinetic Pulse it and at 210/20 who can´t afford Rangers?
ASM + melta will probably get chopped up by Banshees all game and costs 70p + whatever you spend reinforcing them.
Devs at the back with Scouts+SG to spot Rangers might work, with Tacs slightly ahead to shoot any DA that try to grenade your Devs.

vs IG:
Most people use two tacs + devs or asm on most maps. Then T2 and AC Dread. Don´t upgrade scouts with anything but SG if detection becomes necessary.
Getting a flamer is not a bad idea, then change to melee attack and flame away while advancing. GM are crap in melee.
The other tacs can also use melee stance often vs GM.
I used to think that Devs were much better than ASM vs IG but after many explosive shots, Ol´Unreliables, Mortars and Smoke I suspect that ASM are worth getting some of the time if only to be unpredictable. They allow your Tacs to close into melee after the ranged blob has been disrupted by the ASM jump.

Pay attention to the arcane secrets of DoW2, aka loading screen tips.

"Preserving your units and leveling them up is the key to victory."
User avatar
Nurland
Moderator
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon 04 Feb, 2013 5:25 pm
Location: Eye of Error
Contact:

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby Nurland » Wed 23 May, 2018 5:33 am

Are we talking about 1v1 or what game mode here?
#noobcodex
User avatar
TE | NoSkill
Level 3
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed 27 Jul, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby TE | NoSkill » Wed 23 May, 2018 7:30 pm

Nurland wrote:Are we talking about 1v1 or what game mode here?


3v3 in general; does it matter tho, as these are 1v1 situations ?
PianoMan
Level 2
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri 30 Jun, 2017 12:40 pm

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby PianoMan » Wed 23 May, 2018 7:35 pm

yes it matters very much, in a 3v3 you go for your dumb builds which would get you baselocked in 1v1 but thanks to your friendly teammate who buys your gens you'll lose your side xdd
if you want to get better play 1v1s, 3v3s are fucking stupid unless you have some people you know to play with
User avatar
Nurland
Moderator
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon 04 Feb, 2013 5:25 pm
Location: Eye of Error
Contact:

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby Nurland » Thu 24 May, 2018 4:45 pm

Laning against someone in a 3v3 is very different from a real 1v1. The viability of some builds is very different. Also it does make engagement management somewhat different since you have way less space, possible doublings etc.

Anyhow in team games, quick Devs into into ASM or second Tacs is usually the way to go.

You can also open 2 Tacs and then get either Devs or ASM. What you buy is decided by what the enemy has and what hero he/she is playing. ASM are usually pretty bad against Inq for example. LC also does a number on them.

Techmarine needs the least investment to be effective in this MU. You don't need an upgrade in T1 to be effective but you can go either Artificer or MCB or both if need be.

As Apo, you want the bolter after you have your squads up or even before if you have extra power.

As FC you usually go Storm Shieldt + Artificer in T1, Iron Halo, only Artificer or just hang on keeping him vanilla and then get T2 upgrades.
#noobcodex
Thibix Magnus
Level 2
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri 20 Mar, 2015 7:10 pm

Re: SM vs Eldar/IG:

Postby Thibix Magnus » Thu 24 May, 2018 11:38 pm

if I may add, from a mid-level mainly eldar perspective, for what's worth (no, really, don't listen to me):

If you lose the first engagement, well avoid the first engagement 8-) just use the eldar way against them, slowly kite them into your base. They have very poor gen bashing capacity in tier 1, and in team games giving up a bit of field isn't that bad.

delay that first engagement until you get shotguns I think, or otherwise until dev but it's longer. Be super patient. If you choose shotgun first, once you have shotguns but before the shuriken platform you have a decent advantage, avoid DA fire on your scouts, force shees out asap with everything, if banshees are out you can happily force melee with everything on dire avengers, your tacs should melee often early on. Of course from there nothing is determined based on composition, positioning is key in this match up.

I think a key habit to get as SM, which makes them a bit harder to master than I thought, is to play with the timing of your upgrades, as you depend more on them than on specialized units. That first engagement with shotgun should start a bit before you get the upgrade, so you fire it the second you get it.

On T2 I won't comment on the supposed OPness of the falcon :P but a good timing of your lascanon and fusion bomb purchases during an engagement can be nuts. If you somehow win the engagement, maybe with an assist, it's not only an OK retreat for the eldar player, it's a dead falcon. + You can have a lot of fun with veil of time too.

I would add, as an eldar player I tend to struggle against melee dreadnoughts, but maybe it's just me.

Oh and thunder hammer <3

Return to “Strategy discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests