General IG Opening/Transition/Playstyle Thread

Strategy and L2P topics.
User avatar
Takadekadaka
Level 2
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu 06 Feb, 2014 2:00 am

General IG Opening/Transition/Playstyle Thread

Postby Takadekadaka » Sat 19 Mar, 2016 6:05 am

I've been having trouble breaking out of my fairly rigid opening build order, and I'm beginning to suspect that it's because I'm rather unfamiliar with other combinations/openings.

For context, I like playing the lord commissar. I almost always open by first purchasing a sentinel, then a guardsman squad as my opening, and then I almost always go for a HWT and a catachan squad. I reason this works because the catas buy me time by offering both disruption and a melee counter, and allow my HWT to set up and offer sustained control, and can later transition into AV if I need it.

However, it doesn't always work out that way, and it leaves me power starved - I can't afford to purchase wargear as I have already sank a lot of power into the two squads (60ish thus far). If I decide to bash generators with this combo, I most certainly will want to purchase flamers (60+ 15 if purchased on only one squad), which will set me back further. Anyone going for a light T1 with just enough control to keep me from my farms will ALWAYS have the tech advantage.

I guess my point is that I'm getting frustrated with my opening as I'm not able to capitalize on the heavy tier 1 investments I have made - and wonder if I should instead have invested elsewhere. Particularly in the case of wargear and spotters (I never get them so I don't know how well they would work). My question for those who have experience with IG is this:

What do you like to open with (in general, or vs a specific race or hero), and why does that work for you?

I realize that wargead in T1 isn't necessarily a MUST, but if you had any piece of equipment you like to get early as the LC, what would it be?
Last edited by Takadekadaka on Sat 26 Mar, 2016 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Steam Name: Takadekadaka
Imperial Guard - Lord Commissar - Level 23 army
Chaos - CL - Level 22 army
Space Marines - Force Commander - Level 2 army
User avatar
Soberson
Level 2
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue 23 Feb, 2016 10:18 am

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Soberson » Sat 19 Mar, 2016 6:29 am

Is it in 1v1 or team games?
#IGisFINE
Guy gamer.
User avatar
Takadekadaka
Level 2
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu 06 Feb, 2014 2:00 am

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Takadekadaka » Sat 19 Mar, 2016 12:52 pm

For me, both - since team games start as 1v1 jn lanes
Steam Name: Takadekadaka
Imperial Guard - Lord Commissar - Level 23 army
Chaos - CL - Level 22 army
Space Marines - Force Commander - Level 2 army
DandyFrontline
Level 3
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri 31 Jan, 2014 12:04 am

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby DandyFrontline » Sat 19 Mar, 2016 1:24 pm

So it's team games.

1) Sentinel->GM. Senti can rush to the important point to prevent in from capping and if it was capped, rapidly decap before all enemy forced arrived
2) HWT is usually enough to hold the ground before t2, but sometimes spotters are better for example against blobs of range infantry. 2 t1.5 units is pretty risky.
3) Power sword one of the best t1 upgrades in the game - just for 20 power you got commander with really high DPS vs HI, also, with additional speed it becomes much easier to flank enemy HWTs.
4) Sentinel stomp is useful in most cases
5) Sometimes it is good to buy flamers if u see the possibility to bash enemy nodes, also useful for example vs other IG.
User avatar
Takadekadaka
Level 2
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu 06 Feb, 2014 2:00 am

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Takadekadaka » Sat 19 Mar, 2016 4:14 pm

So in what instance would you want to purchase catachans instead? Would it be versus eldar and chaos simply for the on demand melee counter and disruption?

And how would your answer change in 1v1? Would you instead go for triple guardsmen for map control?
Steam Name: Takadekadaka
Imperial Guard - Lord Commissar - Level 23 army
Chaos - CL - Level 22 army
Space Marines - Force Commander - Level 2 army
DandyFrontline
Level 3
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri 31 Jan, 2014 12:04 am

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby DandyFrontline » Sat 19 Mar, 2016 4:33 pm

Takadekadaka wrote:So in what instance would you want to purchase catachans instead? Would it be versus eldar and chaos simply for the on demand melee counter and disruption?

And how would your answer change in 1v1? Would you instead go for triple guardsmen for map control?


I usually buy cats vs melee spam. Not my favourite unit but they can be really good with bionic eye execution tho.

If it was about 1v1 i wouldnt answer at all because i consider myself as a newbie in that mod/
User avatar
egewithin
Level 5
Posts: 1144
Joined: Mon 26 Jan, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby egewithin » Sat 19 Mar, 2016 4:45 pm

Well, I can talk for team games insted of 1v1 because IG in 1v1 is an art.

Every T1,5 unit is situatinal for IG. You can go for HWT or Cats against pretty much everything. Cats are for more close fights. If enemy rushed for melee (and melee rush vs IG is not wise) you can go for Cats and maybe even double cats as long as there aren't potential long ranged threat.

But, since going hard melee vs IG is not popular, outshooting IG is better. And for that, HWT is a good option. Spotters and HWT are a good combo. Spotters counters set up teams ==> HWT controls ranged armys. If there is a melee threat with the ranged threat, WHT controls everything and Cats basicially counters everything better. :D

Rushed walkers like Bloodchrusers are very unfortinate for you. To prevent that, you sohuld bash power farm with the help of your team mates. If you bashed like 3 gens in an assault, melee walker rush is not a threat for you anymore because you will have time to prepare for that. Just double up a side and finish it.

For your LC, don't worry. If some Wraithguard shows up, make him a good build like Stubborness into Powa Klaw. Expensive, but the biggest threat has been dealed with now. Or, insted of cats, give him Carapice armor to counter set up teams.
User avatar
Takadekadaka
Level 2
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu 06 Feb, 2014 2:00 am

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Takadekadaka » Sat 19 Mar, 2016 8:49 pm

Thanks for the advice, I like the Lead By Example skill and increased DPS I get from the power sword upgrade. I think I was too afraid of utilizing only one tier 1.5 unit and getting myself behind in power while only recieving marginal gains.

How do you guys like to play the LC? How often do you guys use execute? What are you thinking of when you balance out the limited energy reserves between Lead By Example, Execute, and the Refractor Shield (for at least in T1)?

I find that I almost never use the execute skill, with the exception of using it to buff the HWT. In every other case it's hard for me to get an idea when it would be good to use it (because my gaurdsmen tend to melt too fast to really benefit from the increased dps, and I don't execute other units because I dont want to bleed expensive units).

I like that LBE gets my LC in engagements maybe twice or three times as fast, but it effectively removes 250 HP (at lvl 1) by removing half of the energy reserves so in a sense it limits his staying power. I then have to choose between executing and using the remaining refractor shield (assuming I didn't get the carapace armor, since I'm focusing on using less power as I've discussed before).
Steam Name: Takadekadaka
Imperial Guard - Lord Commissar - Level 23 army
Chaos - CL - Level 22 army
Space Marines - Force Commander - Level 2 army
Metal C0Mmander
Level 2
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue 10 Dec, 2013 10:29 pm

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Metal C0Mmander » Sun 20 Mar, 2016 2:48 am

As far as what units to use execute on I'd say that you had the right idea by using it to empower the already scary damage of you setup team but you can also use it on ctachans. Storm troopers are also an other unit that work since the higher dps they gain will make up for the loss of a single model especially since they usually don't want to be shot at normally. But perhaps other people that, unlike me, actually are good at playing IG will tell me I'm talking out of my ass.
Consider that whenever I speak of balance I'm speking of team games. I suck at 1v1 and I'm fine with that.
User avatar
Takadekadaka
Level 2
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu 06 Feb, 2014 2:00 am

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Takadekadaka » Sun 20 Mar, 2016 7:54 am

I guess my next line of inquery lies with how IG manages power transaction when they transition from t1 to t2.

Aside from stormtroopers, t2 is far more power thirsty than t1.5, requiring 60, 75, and 90 power for the other units (40, 50, and 60 percent of the power needed to transition into t3). I often get a manticore, and it's a tossup between a chimera (which has no AV potential, but functions effectively as a booster to IG's staying power), and ogryns (which can charge in, counter-initiate melee units, and act as a medium AV counter) as my second t2 power unit. Keeping in mind necessary upgrades to the sentinel (if still alive), and guardsmen (commissar and plasma guns if needed) I am again left with little power to invest in the LC, and possibly far behind in the tech race.

Is it yet another case where I should invest more heavily into the LC rather than t2 power units? Do you prioritize hero upgrades over unit production/upgrades? What do you guys like to do?

Also, how often are you using execute, over say retaining the energy for Wrath of the Emperor, or Lead by Example, or Execute, over the refractpr shield? I am often afraid of using skills as it substantially decreases the shielding time the LC has under fore. Is this more of a function of how aggressive your hero play is (if so, how aggresively do you play)?
Steam Name: Takadekadaka
Imperial Guard - Lord Commissar - Level 23 army
Chaos - CL - Level 22 army
Space Marines - Force Commander - Level 2 army
User avatar
Nurland
Moderator
Posts: 1343
Joined: Mon 04 Feb, 2013 5:25 pm
Location: Eye of Error
Contact:

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Nurland » Sun 20 Mar, 2016 11:12 am

60 power is considered a rather light T1 in most cases tbh. I tend to do 60 power when I go light and up to 150 when I go heavy. I think I have done 200 power T1s as well (not as IG though)

Execute is great for GM you can also use it to break a retreat. Very very useful.

You should check out some casts of Fr33man playing LC. He handles IG and especially LC very well.
#noobcodex
User avatar
Lag
Level 3
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 9:51 pm

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Lag » Sun 20 Mar, 2016 6:52 pm

Use execute on Autocannon to rape vehicles. Use execute on guardsmen to kill enemy squads. Use execute on Catas to win the game.
User avatar
Takadekadaka
Level 2
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu 06 Feb, 2014 2:00 am

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Takadekadaka » Mon 21 Mar, 2016 4:02 am

Nurland wrote:60 power is considered a rather light T1 in most cases tbh. I tend to do 60 power when I go light and up to 150 when I go heavy. I think I have done 200 power T1s as well (not as IG though)


Interesting - would you say that you would spend 100-110 power on average in T1? And for context, is this 1v1 or team play?

I'll just apply that to IG as a thought experiment:

All possible power purchases in T1 with LC:

- Catachan Devils (30) - Demoman (20)
- HWT (30)
- Spotters (30)
- Guardsmen Flamethrowers (15)
- Power Sword (20)
- Carapace Armor (25)
- Aura of Discipline (20)
- Sentinel Stomp (15)

Assuming the typical IG opening is 2xGuardsmen + 1 sentinel (with stomp considered "mandatory"), with the addition of either the HWT or Spotters (since I've heard that catas, while good, are mainly used as a melee counter), roughly 45 power is spent on "mandatory" purchases, leaving 55-65 power left in the bank for an "average" power consumption during T1.

So then that leaves situational purchases: wargears and flamethrowers. Potentially (with 65 power), I could completely kit out the LC in tier one, but I don't think that's a good idea since I hardly see the use of Aura of Discipline (am I correct in assuming it scales poorly with growing IG armies?). So then with the remaining budget, I can get Power Sword, and Carapace armor (45 power spent), and still buy flamethrowers for a single squad of guardsmen should I need it.

Do LC players typically play with that sort of power-spending schemata? Or does IG tend to go light on power consumption in T1 by not electing to buy two wargears/purchase all the upgrades?

Lag wrote:Use execute on Autocannon to rape vehicles. Use execute on guardsmen to kill enemy squads. Use execute on Catas to win the game.


Is the damage caused by abilities also buffed by execute (i.e. ol' unreliable's 40 barbed strangler damage for retreat kills/disruption, and 8 rending damage for shotgun blast)? Or is the shotguns/power melee dps doubling in a big squad just really, really deadly?
Steam Name: Takadekadaka
Imperial Guard - Lord Commissar - Level 23 army
Chaos - CL - Level 22 army
Space Marines - Force Commander - Level 2 army
User avatar
Dark Riku
Level 5
Posts: 3082
Joined: Sun 03 Feb, 2013 10:48 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Dark Riku » Mon 21 Mar, 2016 4:34 pm

Aura of discipline is very powerful later on. Run your CL alongside Orgyns or catachans and they'll stay very healthy :)
In this case you do not want to blob up with the the rest of your army.
Execute does indeed also increase the damage of abilities.
saltychipmunk
Level 4
Posts: 787
Joined: Thu 01 Aug, 2013 3:22 pm

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby saltychipmunk » Tue 22 Mar, 2016 1:32 pm

Takadekadaka wrote:
Nurland wrote:60 power is considered a rather light T1 in most cases tbh. I tend to do 60 power when I go light and up to 150 when I go heavy. I think I have done 200 power T1s as well (not as IG though)


Interesting - would you say that you would spend 100-110 power on average in T1? And for context, is this 1v1 or team play?

I'll just apply that to IG as a thought experiment:

All possible power purchases in T1 with LC:

- Catachan Devils (30) - Demoman (20)
- HWT (30)
- Spotters (30)
- Guardsmen Flamethrowers (15)
- Power Sword (20)
- Carapace Armor (25)
- Aura of Discipline (20)
- Sentinel Stomp (15)



alot of those purchases are unnecessary if you want to be efficent about things. for example if you have both spotters and cats , then there really is no real need to get either the demoman or carapace armor on the commissar . they would still be decent purchases . but the carapace armor is usually purchases for its line breaking and the durability. if you have both spotters AND cats .. you have plenty of line breaking.

the flamers would also be more of a situational thing (as you said). something you get if you happen to have a lone guardsman near an undefended power node. but if you win map control you could easily skip that too if you just get say the cats and a sent on a power node.

aura displine is also another upgrade that you would not strictly need in t1.

and a 3rd 1.5 unit (in this case the hwt) would probably be needed only if the opponent has an equally high squad count t1.

so all in all you could cut down that power investment to something like 30 (cat), 30 (2nd t.1.5 unit) 20 powersword and 15 sentinel stomp and have a very strong t1 army. which is actually very cheap on the power. yet that would still be a pretty heavy t1 with probably 2 guardsman (18 pop) a sent 15 (pop) cats (12 pop i think or is it 14?) and a second t1.5 unit ( 9 - 12 pop). that puts you close to 60 pop in units. Which lines up with your calculations

and I would call that a pretty reasonable medium/high t1


And a light power t1 is something most ig players should try to go for because it is something they can actually pull off quite well thanks you the req only t1 guardsman leader and the fact that most of their t1.5 units are actually light on power investment.
User avatar
Forestradio
Level 5
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sun 13 Oct, 2013 5:09 pm

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Forestradio » Tue 22 Mar, 2016 3:22 pm

if you want to see some replays of good IG team game use, watch any cast with Fr33man in it, he's quite good especially with LC.
User avatar
egewithin
Level 5
Posts: 1144
Joined: Mon 26 Jan, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby egewithin » Tue 22 Mar, 2016 7:59 pm

I don't think this is the best idea ever but I will do it anyway.

Get these.

ImageImageImage

Upgrade like

ImageImageImage

For everything else
Image

THE GOOD
- Any kind of melee weapon is cool for Commisar. Power Sword just buffs those big guys and the claw makes him even more of a threat. Fist is super cute for late game.
-Can smash pretty much every kind of T2 unit.
-Aura keeps Ogryns alive. Every model counts performance.
-Cats can handle infantry type melee threat. They can explode models with Serge melta gun, use shotgun blast and shotgun damage too. while Ogryns acts as a curtain for them. Also A.K.A. anti set up team unit.
-A flank with this army can not be stopped.

THE BAD
-They will always keep bleeding from power melee so you need to reinforce. They are expensive so do not plan for luxery.
-It will take time for you to get the second Ogryns squad so it might be late for them to be effective. SOLUTION : Make a lot of powerbash ==> keep them in T2 and don't let them get into heavy hitters soon.
-I still don't get why the can be suppressed but they do get suppressed. Without cats, they will get into trouble.
-To get rid of upkeep, you better sacriface one of your Guardsmen.
-T3 melee squads will force you to get fist of brocus. You have to make a choice between stubborness and aura.

THE UGLY
-Why am I the only one who sees this build as a thing? I use it a lot!
User avatar
Takadekadaka
Level 2
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu 06 Feb, 2014 2:00 am

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Takadekadaka » Thu 24 Mar, 2016 9:16 pm

I've been trying out the suggestions people have been making, and I quite like what I've tried so far.

However, I'm still wondering: How do you guys determine whether to get HWTs, Cats, or spotters? All of them have various forms of disrupting enemy squads/armies - spotters can effectively shut down a set up team for an engagement and disrupt enemy positioning, catas too can disrupt enemy positioning via ol' unreliable but also carry a melee counter, and the HWTs provide good ol' suppression but can later transition into AV or crowd-control via upgrades in T2.

The use of spotters (and possible catachans) almost negate the need for a HWT (from my limited experience) but do not offer much in the way of transitioning into AV if needed. However, HWTs struggle to keep up with a highly mobile offensive that constantly shift the front lines, something catas and spotters excel at.

What sort of gut-check or intuition do you call on when deciding what T1.5 unit to open up with (given the 3 are of almost equal investment), or perhaps what T1.5 combo do you usually use?
Steam Name: Takadekadaka
Imperial Guard - Lord Commissar - Level 23 army
Chaos - CL - Level 22 army
Space Marines - Force Commander - Level 2 army
Metal C0Mmander
Level 2
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue 10 Dec, 2013 10:29 pm

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Metal C0Mmander » Thu 24 Mar, 2016 9:42 pm

Takadekadaka wrote:I've been trying out the suggestions people have been making, and I quite like what I've tried so far.

However, I'm still wondering: How do you guys determine whether to get HWTs, Cats, or spotters? All of them have various forms of disrupting enemy squads/armies - spotters can effectively shut down a set up team for an engagement and disrupt enemy positioning, catas too can disrupt enemy positioning via ol' unreliable but also carry a melee counter, and the HWTs provide good ol' suppression but can later transition into AV or crowd-control via upgrades in T2.

The use of spotters (and possible catachans) almost negate the need for a HWT (from my limited experience) but do not offer much in the way of transitioning into AV if needed. However, HWTs struggle to keep up with a highly mobile offensive that constantly shift the front lines, something catas and spotters excel at.

What sort of gut-check or intuition do you call on when deciding what T1.5 unit to open up with (given the 3 are of almost equal investment), or perhaps what T1.5 combo do you usually use?

Again shiit IG player here but I'd say spotter vs pure range, HWT vs melee, catachans vs jump or disruption and melee. Oh and if you intend to use spotters with only guardsmen or sentinel then you should probably try to make sure your commander does a fair bit of damage or that your other units use the opportunities the spotters give them to their full effect.

Also there's an other T1 build I haven't heard anyone talk about. 2 guardsmen and 2 sentinels. I know it was used before but I don't know how it fares nowdays.
Consider that whenever I speak of balance I'm speking of team games. I suck at 1v1 and I'm fine with that.
saltychipmunk
Level 4
Posts: 787
Joined: Thu 01 Aug, 2013 3:22 pm

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby saltychipmunk » Fri 25 Mar, 2016 11:37 am

i actually have a question as well (for the more exped ig players) how critical is a sentinel to an ig build order.
generally speaking i hate vehicles. i hate their path finding, i hate how exposed they are if the rest of your army is forced off. The sentinel in particular is very pop heavy but it offers a whole host of things guardsman dont do.

So is it really competitively viable to omit sentinels in ... lets say team games exclusively (2v2 and 3v3) . and if the sent is in fact something one can do without. what would you employ in its stead and how would your play style / other build priorities change?

Or should i just suck it up and get good with sentinels ? It is one of the few units in the game i have never ever really warmed up too... (which is sad since ive probably played over 600 games as ig)
brutalisto
Level 1
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:20 am

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby brutalisto » Fri 25 Mar, 2016 12:09 pm

Simple answer - it all comes down to personal preference and taste. If you feel that way about sentinel then don't include it in your army. It gives ig decent t1 but in t2 it goes down easily unless used defensively behind infantry and shooting missiles because chaos especially will snare it with plague marines and finish off with tzeentch csm. Kcsm can also chase down and destroy sent easily if stomp is off cool down.
User avatar
Toilailee
Champion
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue 12 Mar, 2013 8:26 pm

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Toilailee » Fri 25 Mar, 2016 12:17 pm

Few ideas to try for OP:

- Only get 1 T1.5 unit instead of both catas and hwt. This will keep you from getting out teched too bad.

- Buy stomp. And buy it as your first power purchase, you can get so much mileage out of it in the very early game (Sorry if you were alredy doing that but I got the impression from your post that you are not using it). Stomp should be your main melee counter, not catas.

- Don't buy flamers to bash power, instead use a multi las turret and regular fire from gm + whatever you have at enemy farm. Las turrets are far more cost efficient power wise and can even be salvaged to get some of that back. They also help to keep defending enemy at bay AND you it won't downgrade your guardsmen with flamers for the rest of the game while also keeping the option for plasmas open. I would only ever use flamers for ninja bashing with a lone gm squad when the enemy main force is fighting on the other side of the map.
Swift I: You're not a nerd, you're just a very gifted social spastic
Metal C0Mmander
Level 2
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue 10 Dec, 2013 10:29 pm

Re: IG Tier 1/1.5

Postby Metal C0Mmander » Fri 25 Mar, 2016 10:26 pm

saltychipmunk wrote:i actually have a question as well (for the more exped ig players) how critical is a sentinel to an ig build order.
generally speaking i hate vehicles. i hate their path finding, i hate how exposed they are if the rest of your army is forced off. The sentinel in particular is very pop heavy but it offers a whole host of things guardsman dont do.

So is it really competitively viable to omit sentinels in ... lets say team games exclusively (2v2 and 3v3) . and if the sent is in fact something one can do without. what would you employ in its stead and how would your play style / other build priorities change?

It's doable but you'll have to make excellent use of cover and your commander. Also depending on who you're facing you'll have different challenges. Space marines and chaos are really hard to take out for guardsmen so you'll have to tie them up with your commander (so maybe don't do it with a lord general), eldars have a lot of damage so try to catch them out of cover and be careful of their melee squads, IG have the sentinel which is great vs guarsmen so you'll probably ned to buy a multi las tureet (you can try to buy one against other races too but you'll have to be really careful about it getting rushed) but tyrands might not be a good idea considering how strong they are at rushing. As to what you should follow up with you'll need a catachan squad or an HWT because you'll nee something to stop melee. But here's one advantage of going triple guardsmen. Since you won't have spent power on a sentinel stomp you can use it to buy a flamer (and keep 2 guardsmen squad to get plasma gun), a second 1.5 unit or anything else fancy you might want.
Consider that whenever I speak of balance I'm speking of team games. I suck at 1v1 and I'm fine with that.
User avatar
Takadekadaka
Level 2
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu 06 Feb, 2014 2:00 am

General IG opening/transition/playstyle thread

Postby Takadekadaka » Fri 25 Mar, 2016 11:26 pm

Metal C0Mmander wrote:
saltychipmunk wrote:i actually have a question as well (for the more exped ig players) how critical is a sentinel to an ig build order.
generally speaking i hate vehicles. i hate their path finding, i hate how exposed they are if the rest of your army is forced off. The sentinel in particular is very pop heavy but it offers a whole host of things guardsman dont do.

So is it really competitively viable to omit sentinels in ... lets say team games exclusively (2v2 and 3v3) . and if the sent is in fact something one can do without. what would you employ in its stead and how would your play style / other build priorities change?

It's doable but you'll have to make excellent use of cover and your commander. Also depending on who you're facing you'll have different challenges. Space marines and chaos are really hard to take out for guardsmen so you'll have to tie them up with your commander (so maybe don't do it with a lord general), eldars have a lot of damage so try to catch them out of cover and be careful of their melee squads, IG have the sentinel which is great vs guarsmen so you'll probably ned to buy a multi las tureet (you can try to buy one against other races too but you'll have to be really careful about it getting rushed) but tyrands might not be a good idea considering how strong they are at rushing. As to what you should follow up with you'll need a catachan squad or an HWT because you'll nee something to stop melee. But here's one advantage of going triple guardsmen. Since you won't have spent power on a sentinel stomp you can use it to buy a flamer (and keep 2 guardsmen squad to get plasma gun), a second 1.5 unit or anything else fancy you might want.


Don't forget that this build (if you keep your squads alive) has extremely good synergy with the Lord Commissar's stubborness accessory come tier 2, and even better synergy come tier 3 with None Shall Fall. Come to think of it, the player is rewarded for keeping stuff alive come tier 2 when the chimera comes online and allows you to reinforce on the go (9 at a time with the chimera).

The only difficulty that comes with it is that guardsmen bleed fast. In tier 1, guardsmen have more theoretical damage output. With the sergeant upgrade, a guardsmen squad has 36 dps (including the 3 dps from the sergeant's laspistol) which is 6 more than the sentinel (30 dps). However, it is incredibly easy for guardsmen to drop 2 models in a few seconds, effectively reducing the squad's effectiveness (AND costs money to replenish, albeit half of the original cost with the sergeant). That may or may not be balanced out with the Lord Commissar's execute, which (after subtracting 4 dps from a lasgun guardsmen), puts the squad at 64 dps at full strength and optimal firing conditions. However, it calls to question how long the squad can stay in optimal firing conditions when they literally glow to alert the enemy of their increased firepower.

Sentinels rewards micro-heavy play because they are a more reliable source of damage that does NOT bleed when utilized effectively - a sentinel at 10% health can still fire just as effectively at full health whereas gaurdsmen cannot. Keep in mind that sentinels can fire on the move (while moving backwards, even), while guardsmen cannot. This represents another instance where there is a lot of micromanagement involved in keeping guardsmen well positioned and away with threats that results in a temporary loss of dps as guardsmen reposition themselves, and the costs of replenishing the guardsmen as they are fired upon. IIRC, repairs are free. That is not something to dismiss.

Also keep in mind the stomp is easily the first defense an IG player has against melee units. The stomp is not something to dismiss, ESPECIALLY against melee commanders that disrupt your army, such as the FC.

However, it is important to say that triple gaurdsmen has its advantages in 1v1 matchups where the player is required to pay more attention to map control than a typical team game (Especially 3v3). Sentinels can decap (which one can argue it is good at because of its speed), but its relative fragility against ranged units without support makes solo-decapping with sentinels an extremely risky proposition that is more risky than rewarding in most cases.

I'm not entirely sure how sentinels scale in comparison to guardsmen though - the plasma gun upgrade makes the squad very deadly to HI and SHI, and the commissar upgrade adds more DPS, more health, AND the flexibility to use the retreat as a means to quickly reposition the line farther back rather quickly. However, this still does not address the squishyness and bleed problems guardsmen have. As is the nature of guardsmen, you will expect to lose a lot of them, which hurts you late game when your army starts taxing your income heavily with upkeep. You cannot afford to keep shelling out for gaurdsmen that fall within seconds while fielding a full army.

However late game, sentinels are EXTREMELY fragile - and require a lot of babysitting. But it does provide an soft-AV counter the IG player can easily transition to come T2, and provides AOE damage that easily puts the hurt out on squads. By principle, if you've kept it alive through most of T2 (assuming you've kept it active in combat) it SHOULD have been very cost effective by virtue of its non-existent bleed (I think if you're careful, it should NOT cost you guardsmen to repair it, unless you like to repair under fire and in bad positions). If you can keep it alive in T1 and through T2, I think you will find that you will be well rewarded. But that's my opinion, and I guess that's why I never use triple guardsmen, and almost always get a sentinel.
Steam Name: Takadekadaka
Imperial Guard - Lord Commissar - Level 23 army
Chaos - CL - Level 22 army
Space Marines - Force Commander - Level 2 army
User avatar
Takadekadaka
Level 2
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu 06 Feb, 2014 2:00 am

Re: General IG Opening/Transition/Playstyle Thread

Postby Takadekadaka » Sat 26 Mar, 2016 3:12 pm

I just wanted to ask how people use spotters effectively. I'm finding myself struggling to use them efficiently...

So far, my understanding of them, and my problems are as follows:

- Use smoke shell to disable ranged teams (especially Set up teams) when your army is ready to engage. However, I'm running into the problem where the shells don't drop before my army arrives, which leads to them getting suppressed by set up teams. Perhaps because of my lack of experience, the only other option I see is having them lead the army, but that's risking serious bleed (47/5 per model!!! That's a full guardsmen squad after 4 losses!!!!).
- Use artillery shell to disrupt blobs/un-set up weapons teams/break enemy units out of cover by placing the shell behind units to launch them forward. I'm still finding that anyone worth their salt online can easily dodge the shot (except for teams that have to tear down). Is the utility of the spotters strictly limited to shutting down set-up teams until T2 with their area-of-denial incendiary shells?
- Also, spotters don't really have an AV function unless the opponents has an irrational hatred for moving their vehicles for the entirety of the match. What steps do you take/what purchases do you plan for as you transition to T2 with spotters? Are you forced to use a light T2 in order to bring out the AV options out in time?

Also does anyone find that as IG, opponents usually try to fast tech (in team games, not much experience in 1v1)? I'm trying to play a balanced tier 1 (1 T1.5 unit only, stomp, 1 wargear, perhaps 2 wargears) and I almost always see them tech faster than me, even with untouched full farms.
Steam Name: Takadekadaka
Imperial Guard - Lord Commissar - Level 23 army
Chaos - CL - Level 22 army
Space Marines - Force Commander - Level 2 army
Metal C0Mmander
Level 2
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue 10 Dec, 2013 10:29 pm

Re: General IG Opening/Transition/Playstyle Thread

Postby Metal C0Mmander » Sat 26 Mar, 2016 4:20 pm

You know if you find spotter to hard to use you can always go for catachans. They are weaker at dealing with ranged army a bit but they can fight. Also to answer your question about T2 AV your options are storm troopers, HWT (bought in T2), commander wargear or Ogryn if you'e feeling a bit ballsy.
Consider that whenever I speak of balance I'm speking of team games. I suck at 1v1 and I'm fine with that.
User avatar
Takadekadaka
Level 2
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu 06 Feb, 2014 2:00 am

Re: General IG Opening/Transition/Playstyle Thread

Postby Takadekadaka » Sat 26 Mar, 2016 4:43 pm

I have been using catachans in the past, and I realize they are an effective substitute, but I'm really trying to work on my fundamentals/mechanics using this race by pushing my comfort zone.

Do you have any tips for keeping them effective throughout an engagement (Rather than just the opening portions of it), or keeping them relevant? How do you use spotters effectively in engagements?
Steam Name: Takadekadaka
Imperial Guard - Lord Commissar - Level 23 army
Chaos - CL - Level 22 army
Space Marines - Force Commander - Level 2 army
User avatar
egewithin
Level 5
Posts: 1144
Joined: Mon 26 Jan, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: General IG Opening/Transition/Playstyle Thread

Postby egewithin » Sun 27 Mar, 2016 6:28 am

I think you should go for only 1 cat or only 1 HWT for T1 aand go T2 after that.

Return to “Strategy Discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests