IG vs Zoanthropes

[welshy]

Hey,

What would you build if you saw someone spewing out a couple/three zoans to deal with your lines of guardsmen?

From my experience only infiltrated units (Ogryns/Stormtroopers) stand a chance, lets just hope they don't have any detectors (the commonly built warriors) and that they aren't paying attention.

Is it me or do the IG need to put a lot of work in to get anything out, while other races can just sit and click n kill?

[Sub_Zero]

Stormtroopers (with the AK upgrade) seem like an ideal solution. Here are some numbers for you to consider:
two possible units to counter (detect) your infiltrated stormtroopers - warriors (30 range of detection); venom brood (30 range of detection)
zoanthrope max range is 60 but actual sight is 55
ak stormtroopers max range is 45.6
So 15.6 is your advantage when they are infiltrated

Ogryns will be good only if you catch him unawared. Otherwise 2x crippling poison and follow up by zoans will own them hard.

All in all AK stormtroopers spam > zoans spam. But I would respond to stormtroopers with tyrant guards - piercing damage tickles them.

You can also try the manticore. But that again requires bad reaction from him since it is pretty easy to dodge mantis with zoans while they have their shields up.

Another good thing to negate zoans are healing bunkers. Since they hurt a lot of models but don't actually kill them right away. The healing will let GM restore health fast (+ add to that LG's healing armour or LC's aura of discipline). But that mostly when you defend a position, when he tries to dislodge you with constant attacks of zoans. You just heal, run backward, keep the balance between offence and defence and hold the line.

[Dark Riku]

LC - Inspire Terror

[Tex]

AKST's rape zoans.

Skirt the army, cloak only when you need to so that you can position yourself on the flank or at the rear of your opponents army. Focus fire a zoan, and it will be forced to retreat almost immediately. Take cloaking off and save energy for a nade.

If you have 2 AKST's, just focus fire the zoan and it will reatreat with about 30hp. Make sure you are in position to get 1 more burst off and its dead.

Commander specific:

If you play commissar, march forward and then execute that floating brain.
Or, execute a cloaked AKST member and proceed to do a 160% damage burst to the zoan. If the shield is down, there is a chance it will die outright. With 2 AKST's, the zoan will die outright, even with the shield on.
Another thing you can do is to use the damage buff from his power sword on your 2x AKST's.

If you play general, grab the sniper rifle and watch as your guardsmen can shoot down the zoan without having to march forward. Another neat thing is to use the grenade launcher, and buff your squad of AKST's with "go go go!!". This should allow them to land a volley on the zoan and then quickly reposition to land 2 or 3 more volleys. I suspect that even if the zoan retreats after the first volley, you should be able to finish it off in retreat.

If you play inquisitor, you have so many options its not even funny. Her ability to make a unit invisible means that you can sneak in ogryns, you can sneak yourself in, you can save energy on your AKST's by making them invisible so they are guaranteed to have a retreat grenade ready. She also has her melta pistol, and the ability pretty much means the zoan must leave combat within 20 seconds or die. You can use any of her stuns or snares to combine with the manticore, although excrutiators has the longest range so I would recommend that one.

[Cyris]

Having played Nids with a Zoan against Tex's IG, I can deff say this ST strat does a good job. I needed to be much more cautious with where I stood my Zoan and Warrior detectors, which meant I wasn;t able to be pouring shots into the GM half as much as I could have otherwise. And if he out-microed me, I lost the Zoan. By contrast if I out-microed him, I hit maybe 1 GM squad with 1 zoan blast, which while strong, bleed nothing meaningful.

I just looked up some of the stats on AKST to understand better how to fight against them, and how to use them better (since I'm in the process of switching to IG main). They are in a lot of ways T2 Long Range Operatives! Some notes:

Economics:
400 initial cost plus 75 for the AK upgrade. No Power at all, so picking up 2 in T2 means you will be SWIMING in Power, allowing a T3 Tank spam followup, or using some of the IG Power heavy T2 options. Though I gotta say, I do not, in any way at all, see this supposed "Power Heavy T2" that I've heard IG players complain about. I haven't used stormtroopers much either, so curious to see what adding them into my mix will do.
15 population. This is a touch high for a T2 piercing damage squad, BUT their upkeep is low (2.05 / pop). They pay upkeep as though they are a 12 pop squad (at a standard rate of 2.55 / pop.)

Stats:
920 health with 5.5 speed is nothing to write home about, but it's reasonable. Much like Ops they are 180 health per model with stealth, though the -1 speed is clearly weaker.
Damage is where it gets fun! Range 45.6 is a solid 7.5 longer then a standard range squad, so we're already in a good spot. They deal 30 damage with a 2 second burst, followed by a 2 second reload. This is where they remind me a LOT of Ops, who do a 3/3 rotation. But at range 28! The AKST will be dealing then 60 damage each over 2 seconds, followed by 2 seconds of downtime to reposition for the next shot. This comes out to 300 damage over 2 seconds (or 150 dps) for a total of 75 dps for the whole squad constantly firing. This is very comparable to Ops (360 damage in 3 seconds, 60 dps constant shots) but again at nearly 65% longer range. This plus stealth is why these guys can very much be considered T2 snipers. Unload volley, re-position, unload again. It takes micro, but geez is it potent!

Other:
Grenade is range 30, longer then most others.
AK upgrade removes weapon cooldown, which should allow them to fire at full speed under suppression! I have not tested this, but I suspect it be be so.
They have a leader who dies last? I'm unclear on this, the Codex confused me. There is a leader listed, but no upgrade? If one of the ST is just deemed the "leader" and gains 20 bonus health and "die last", it's actually quite strong. Die last leaders help reduce bleed by making each incomming ranged shot have a reduced chance of "last hitting" a model.

[Sub_Zero]

I never noticed anything special about this unmasked guy. He doesn't seem to be the last to die model.

[Wise Windu]

It isn't die last. It just has 20 more HP.

[Cyris]

It isn't die last. It just has 20 more HP.

So really curious about this then. He has the same weapons as everyone else. The same stats except for 20 more health (and give 4 less Red, lol). He reinforces for the same price? What's the, um, point of him?

[Crewfinity]

to look like a badass

[Dullahan]

Manticore can quite easily disrupt a blob of zoanthropes, allowing you to get close while they're either running away or being knocked down, although it is unlikely that they will die outright. My suggestion would be to lay the flare down BEHIND the zoanthropes, forcing them to move closer to you or risk taking damage.

Ogryns are ideal for this, but stormtroopers with hotshot las guns are quite able to scare off zoanthropes from a distance when they're not being shot at. There's also a ton of hero wargear you can use here. The Lord General can get the refractor field to allow a squad of stormtroopers to shoot at them even under fire. Or you can get the sniper rifle and allow your entire army to fire at them from outside the range of the zoanthropes provided you have vision. The Commissar Lord can get the Flak Jacket and execute one of the zoanthropes. The inquisitor can use the inferno pistol to either shoot them or pass judgement upon them. You can also use purgatus to deal a lot of damage and stun if you time it properly, albeit that is fairly late game. Or you can infiltrate some Ogryns and sneak up on them.

You can also use global abilities to allow yourself to get close. The Commissar Lord's flare will reduce their range, the Lord General's heavy turret can shoot them from fairly far away, you can also use the lord general's valkyrie barrage to push them towards your army with knockback. And the Inquisitor can spawn a squad of stormtroopers behind them.


Really, there's a lot you can do about them!

[lolzarz]

It isn't die last. It just has 20 more HP.

So really curious about this then. He has the same weapons as everyone else. The same stats except for 20 more health (and give 4 less Red, lol). He reinforces for the same price? What's the, um, point of him?

Because extra squad member= extra DPS and everyone loves additional burst damage. Flagrant overkill is best kill.