Raptors.

[Daddy]

What is the proper place for Raptors past t1?

T1 makes sense to field these bad boys. You get jump and suppression.


Beyond T1...

They suck at melee, despite having a power fist aspiring champion. (80/25) really? for a meatshield? I can't even tank t1 melee with this, for me to even consider tanking anything in t2.( I can do twice as much with AC heretics to ward of melee)

They suck at ranged despite getting melta guns. Their range is so short that the tanks just sit there and shoot the raptors in the face. Even if I manage to jump behind a tank, i'd be lucky to have enough energy to throw a melta bomb, and time long enough to cause dent. (Seriously PM are a much better and safer option at this point)

They are slow, cannot chase light vehicles. They get out kited by any doubled up ranged units.

They bleed horrendously and are costly to reinforce. They take up way too much pop, fully upgraded at 20 pop!!! No other unit in the chaos roster has such a high population cost and does so little. Bloodletters are 12 pop!! cost less and are 10X more viable.

Please let me know what you think, I'd be happy to see what others have to say.

[egewithin]

You have a good point on reinforce problem. Also, god point on vehicle chase. However, you should be able to kill a light vehicle with a melta bomb ==< a few melta shots unless you chase a Land Raider which is much easyer to chase for Raptors because of speed. But, Raptors are a must for PC because he can not counter a set up team by him self while other Chaos heroes can. So, they have a place in T1 and T2.

The more battles grow, the more they bleed. You can suppress an entire ranged army in one jump and this is a good tool to use for an attack. You can just send them to death and get Khorne Dread or Bloodletters. But it is a good thing to keep them in 1v1.

Btw, all fully upgraded jump troops have 20 pop. Not special for Raptors.

[Sub_Zero]

I like them in every tier. In T1 they lay down red carpet for nasty things like melee heretics or noise marines. In T2 they get a very good ability to kill squad leaders/count them out of any fight. And their optional T3 upgrade is also nice when the game becomes more vehicle-oriented. Certainly you won't succeed if you jump head on, gotta draw fire with something else or even surprise your opponent with a flanking maneuver. I've never been able to do any impact with melta raptors against a competent player when I attacked head on.

[Dark Riku]

From what I'm reading here this is just a L2P issue rather than a balance one.

They are a jump unit, jump units are more niche than dedicated melee units.
Try paying 100/25 for a power sword instead?
They do not suck at ranged. Tanks definitely can't just out shoot meltagun raptors.
Jump is 65 energy, bomb is 40. All it takes is one level up or a couple of second of regen after the jump.
And if you have raptors in T3 without being level 2+ you're doing something wrong or you just bought them.
Slow? They can jump and have a normal moving speed.
Any 1 melee unit will get out kited by 2 ranged units.
They take as much pop as asm and cost less.

[Torpid]

A very misguided post.

In T2 they are better in melee combat than even stormboyz. They beat stormboyz 1v1 in t2! They wreck shees/sluggas - just make sure to use daemonic fury on the lead model of the sluggas/shees. While jumping, suppression multiple ranged squads potentially and having very good AV potential vs anything but melee walkers AND having amazing scaling potential since they can be one of the best tank counters in T3.

PMs vs a good foe are simply not ever going to get anywhere near a tank and you are going to have to fight through layers of SUTs to reach the tank, so you will jump in stuff to deal with the SUTs but the tank will be behind them and tear your raptors/hero/bloodletters to bits, then the SUTs re-set-up and your PMs can't move forward enough to kill the tank. Raptors do more damage and have a snare which also does burst damage. They're the perfect tank killers - granted they kinda suck vs everything else except melee SHI units but that's because they are so good vs tanks then.

I think a much better question would be "when to get raptors in T1", because that to me is not obvious. The combination of havocs+nm deals with SUTs very easily, or sigil, or a CL with halo and some worhip, or a CL chilling next to a havoc with a combi bolter, shooting up the suppressed enemy SUT.

Bloodletters are OP though atm. They certainly should not be 12 pop. It's absolutely bat-shit, balls-to-the-wall insane that they are that. They should be 16 pop at the least. Also why the chaos predator is still 12 pop is completely beyond me too. No need.

Basically you get them in T2 when you need to deal with ranged blobs that have lots of piercing damage - something that BLs are not great vs. Bloodletters are your big counter-initiation unit in T2, primarily for dealing with melee.

[Caeltos]

Bloodletters are OP though atm. They certainly should not be 12 pop. It's absolutely bat-shit, balls-to-the-wall insane that they are that. They should be 16 pop at the least. Also why the chaos predator is still 12 pop is completely beyond me too. No need.

Chaos Predator is not 12 pop.

[Torpid]

Bloodletters are OP though atm. They certainly should not be 12 pop. It's absolutely bat-shit, balls-to-the-wall insane that they are that. They should be 16 pop at the least. Also why the chaos predator is still 12 pop is completely beyond me too. No need.

Chaos Predator is not 12 pop.

15*

As opposed to 18.

[Crewfinity]

15*

As opposed to 18.

upkeep is the same as the SM predator though, at 45.9

so does the population difference really mean that much? its just one scout model after all.

[Torpid]

15*

As opposed to 18.

upkeep is the same as the SM predator though, at 45.9

so does the population difference really mean that much? its just one scout model after all.

Yes. Yes it does since upkeep that you must pay = the units with the highest upkeep value for population value worth "current pop - 30". So by having lower pop the upkeep that you pay is always lower and there's just no need for it, chaos preds are in noway inferior to SM preds, in fact, I'de say they're superior not only in raw stats but composition too and now in elite chaos T3 is just as good as SM if not better as well.

[Caeltos]

Scout + Sergeant is 12 pop

Heretic + AC is 13 pop

SM has a librarian that is 5 pop no bleed factor commander-sub unit , let's not forget Autarch/Weirdboy

Looted Tank is 15 pop , but k

arbitary angry rant is arbitary. Next thing you'll be hearing is that ripper swarm is OP , oh wai-

Chaos Pred is 15 pop because the overall army composition of chaos, just the way why Looted Tank is 15 pop for Orks. There's no difference. Previously, Chaos had 16 pop bloodletter/16 pop plague marines , 5 pop sergeants, and overpopped and underperforming tank (which has the equivelant cost of a regular SM predator, but the SM predator has better performance scaling through armored plating, but hey- let's totally ignore that for the sake of just doing it)

Fyi, Chaos Predator & Space Marines Predator HAVE THE EXACT SAME stats (If we're default preds + lascannon) only Nurgle/Predaotr have different stats, but that's because they're both specialized, so it'd be comparing apples & oranges in that regard. Chaos Predator has higher upkeep per pop, whereas Space Marine Predator has better performance potential through-out the armor plating upgrade, which grants it +200 health, whereas the regular Predator has none of those attributes. They both serve their purpose, and complaining about them now seems just nothing short but random.


HUEHUEHUEHUEHUHUEHUE IM ANGRY

[Torpid]

Scout + Sergeant is 12 pop

Heretic + AC is 13 pop

SM has a librarian that is 5 pop no bleed factor commander-sub unit , let's not forget Autarch/Weirdboy

Looted Tank is 15 pop , but k

arbitary angry rant is arbitary. Next thing you'll be hearing is that ripper swarm is OP , oh wai-

Chaos Pred is 15 pop because the overall army composition of chaos, just the way why Looted Tank is 15 pop for Orks. There's no difference. Previously, Chaos had 16 pop bloodletter/16 pop plague marines , 5 pop sergeants, and overpopped and underperforming tank (which has the equivelant cost of a regular SM predator, but the SM predator has better performance scaling through armored plating, but hey- let's totally ignore that for the sake of just doing it)

Fyi, Chaos Predator & Space Marines Predator HAVE THE EXACT SAME stats (If we're default preds + lascannon) only Nurgle/Predaotr have different stats, but that's because they're both specialized, so it'd be comparing apples & oranges in that regard. Chaos Predator has higher upkeep per pop, whereas Space Marine Predator has better performance potential through-out the armor plating upgrade, which grants it +200 health, whereas the regular Predator has none of those attributes. They both serve their purpose, and complaining about them now seems just nothing short but random.


HUEHUEHUEHUEHUHUEHUE IM ANGRY

Caeltos, there is a lot more than that to complain about that has been going on for a long time; but I gave up motivation for that a long time ago especially since when I post a long post explaining my thoughts it gets no response from you; and you yourself very rarely bother to post long walls of text to explain your thoughts be they about past things, present changes or future changes/directions.

For example the change to termagants toxin sacs + hormagaunt adrenal glands alongside the default cost changes. These seem highly inappropriate and just not necessary for nids quite frankly; especially with the synapse changes from retail which were nerfs to gaunt scaling.

Why make them all cheaper and weaker which only undermines their scaling and makes nids rely on singularly OP units like zoanthropes and TGs in their T2 (which really, both still need nerfing) as well as the blatantly overperforming raveners in T1 (their burst firing mechanism makes their damage just unacceptable for a T1 unit). Furthermore this only lead to the ridiculousness that is allowing hormagaunt adrenal glands to cost 50/15 and toxin sacs for termagants to cost 75/15 despite toxin sacs being so mindblowly better it is ridiculous. Not only is the health boost larger and they get an AMAZING ability because of it but they get a whopping 45% damage increase. That's a huge increase!

They could remain at 50/15 and termagants could be better in terms of damage by default but toxin sacs would only give a 20% buff or so - the remainder being added onto termagants default damage. It would make more sense overall because that toxin sac upgrade on the terms right now is just such a huge no-brainer and I think while it doesn't affect he balance too much because I don't think t1 upgraded terms are OP, nor do I think nids lack pressure in T1, I think overall it would just work out better as it would balance out the timings in which they get their pressure from while simultaneously making those T1 gaunts a bit more durable (like they were in retail, i.e. slightly more expensive but more hp) so they scale better into T2 and then you don't NEED silly-strong units like the TG/zoans and now the AG warriors to carry the nids forward. I mean, nids are always teching faster than their foes anyway; it's nuts.

The damage buff to adrenal gland warriors is absolute madness which came out of nowhere - as if they weren't good enough before...

I feel like on the whole decreasing the pop of squad leaders might have done better than decreasing their upkeep cost and keeping their pop the same.

I also strongly dislike the banshee exarch being 25 power given the structure of the squad, same with the warp spider squad exarch too. It's so annoying when a warboss can kill my banshee exarch in two swings of his power klaw post-charge. Much preferred shees in retail where they weren't so crazy strong in the early game where they couldn't solo hive tyrants with ease and where the eldar had to actually play that game of hit-and-run rather than just a-moving in with shees+2x DA.

Melee charge on the warlock would be preferable to the leap. The lack of a melee charge makes the warlock essentially only ever useful for capping, using spells or counter-initiating. He can't actually do much work at all soloing squads trying to bleed them like an upgraded warboss in T1 or force commander or CL would do.

The warboss' charge need not increase his damage given the greater array of options now viable in elite to increase his regen tremendously.

Without number no longer costing any resources and reinforcing for free nearby units.

The wraithguard changes which frankly make them an even more niche unit than before but an even more obnoxious one to fight when they are used in the situations at which they now totally excel - slaughtering tanks and transports without mercy, as well as being a building/structure/suppression-team counter.

The 50 red webway gates which are still overpowered. The 35 red capillary towers which are still overpowered and of course, the rippers which come out of them which are now more overpowered than they were before (read; they already were overpowered before being buffed again).

Regarding chaos - it tends to get to T3 easier and it now has a better T3. The chaos predator not only is more versatile than the SM one but it also has worship to boost its combat effectiveness. Bloodletters massively overperform for 12 pop. A tactical marine is 5pop damnit, how can a bloodletter be 3. A slugga boy is 2 pop and a bloodletter is 3. This never made much sense.

And let's not even go into the GK changes.

[Daddy]

Yeah it's definitely a L2P issue.

I just thought maybe there was a clear way to use them that really highlights their strong point.

[Vapor]

The most immediately impressive use of Raptors is to play CS and cast coruscating flames on them while midair.

Consume a tic and chuck doombolts at the suppressed squad(s) for added lulz. Or use sigil and pull everything back in Kappa

[Caeltos]

Why do people seriously expect me to write over a hundred lines in every single post that I make, and why I should be so deliberate on explaining everything so specifically when there are so many things that are subject to change? There are literally not a single game developer that would be so public about it, and the reason is that, you ought to be careful with what you say, and despite what you say- people will either not see eye-to-eye with it, and it's better to just go with with your own instinct, because you need to be have some confidence in your work and artistic design.

So here, I'll spoon-feed your some insight on what I think the direction should be.

- Eldar should be heavily more focused on mobility and guerilla warfare
- Chaos should be more about direct-damage and an ego-centric race that depends more on debuffs, rather than supportive abilities
- Space Marines should be more reactive and adapative to the battlefield
- Imperial Guard should be more heavily focused on controlling ground and having a mixture of mechanized armies.
- Grey Knights should be about controlling the flow of the battlefields and able to make quick-hard hits
- Tau can commit to long-range firefights and FORCE fights. This is to highlight the lore aspect of Mont'ka and Kauyon.
- Sistle of Battle would introduce the most control-oriented warfights in the game through-out their flame-favorable weaponry
- Orks are all about commiting to fights 24/7. They would have an overbundance of requisition to fully idealise this design
- Tyranids are all about being where you don't want them to be, and they would hit you hard, and relentless. Sharing a similliar trait to the orks in this regard.

Now, why I haven't been public about this artistic-design is because people are so uptight on what they find so precious about Dawn of War 2, that I want to also try to preserve this to the best of my abilities. Alot of other developer share this same prospect, and they have to give up on their artistic design and envision of the game. It wouldn't matter if they stated their reasoning for choices they make, because people would turn a blind-eye and just ignore what they say, and go full-on fanboyism and favorism instead of what they game developer envision of their game. No game developer wants to deliberately want to turn their game into trash for the sake of it, or their mod for that matter. Unless they're scumbag who doesn't like videogames and just run some kickstarter videos to get their crack-money.

I've played this game since the beta, I've been in the competetive circuit for so long. This is an experience that is no longer present even the Dawn of War 2 era, and people are exagurrating issues beyond what I even comprehend. This what you're bringing up, is just like any other the what the community percieved as an issue in DoW2 vanilla retail, which wasn't even noticeable even the competeitve circuit, and when that was adressed, the competetive circuit suffered because of it. You need a fine-balance of adjutsing to the 99% , as well as the 1%. What people fail to understand, is that despite what people think - is that there is no such thing as perfect balance. It wasn't present in Starcraft, and people think that was a glorified holy aura of beacon of "perfect balance". Me, adressing issues isn't a neccassity, it'll always be around. That doesn't that I won't read it, but I'll still read it and see what I think about in my own private bubble.

People think it's always so simple to adress something, but that's hardly ever the case. It's simple because they percieve it as much, and that they thrive on thinking in simple matter, rather than the global-scale and consequences of the changes, and how the gameplay changes as a result. Again, I'll bring the point of balancing the 99%, as well as the 1%. You may find something lacking, or an issue - but that doesn't mean the rest of the community shares your opinion, so it's best not to try to make as of it as a fact, when it's quite the contrary. Your subjective opinion matters, but I can't adress your sole opinion for your sake. If you feel disatisifed because I don't adress it, then suck it up - I can't make everyone happy. This is mere simple basics of making any game, or mod for that matter.

I'll share stuff when I feel like sharing. I'll express my opinion, when I feel like expressing myself, and the situation demands it. Not because you or anyone else feel entitled to get a response. I'm a human being, I can't respond to everyones inquiry.

[xXKageAsashinXx]

*applaudes caeltos*

[crazypeacocke]

Love it Caeltos Nice to see the general philosophy for each race in a single sentence.

Why make them all cheaper and weaker which only undermines their scaling and makes nids rely on singularly OP units like zoanthropes and TGs in their T2 (which really, both still need nerfing) as well as the blatantly overperforming raveners in T1 (their burst firing mechanism makes their damage just unacceptable for a T1 unit). Furthermore this only lead to the ridiculousness that is allowing hormagaunt adrenal glands to cost 50/15 and toxin sacs for termagants to cost 75/15 despite toxin sacs being so mindblowly better it is ridiculous. Not only is the health boost larger and they get an AMAZING ability because of it but they get a whopping 45% damage increase. That's a huge increase!

They could remain at 50/15 and termagants could be better in terms of damage by default but toxin sacs would only give a 20% buff or so - the remainder being added onto termagants default damage. It would make more sense overall because that toxin sac upgrade on the terms right now is just such a huge no-brainer and I think while it doesn't affect he balance too much because I don't think t1 upgraded terms are OP, nor do I think nids lack pressure in T1, I think overall it would just work out better as it would balance out the timings in which they get their pressure from while simultaneously making those T1 gaunts a bit more durable (like they were in retail, i.e. slightly more expensive but more hp) so they scale better into T2 and then you don't NEED silly-strong units like the TG/zoans and now the AG warriors to carry the nids forward. I mean, nids are always teching faster than their foes anyway; it's nuts.

The damage buff to adrenal gland warriors is absolute madness which came out of nowhere - as if they weren't good enough before...
.
.
And let's not even go into the GK changes.

Torpid, you always seem to be pushing this theory that zoanthropes are the most overpowered unit ever seen in this game. They are the ultimate glass cannon - can go down to a single volley of fire, or even to a single squad if concentration lapses for just a second. Powerful commander melee weapons can wipe a full hp zoan in 1 hit in retreat, and the teleporting FC is a bane of many. Their speed is super low too, meandering along slower than most infantry units in the game.

All of this is the significant tradeoff to the powerful artillery unit it is. Yes it can do big chunks of damage to grouped up low hp units, and yes it has a degree of flexibility, but it is not OP as you claim. It has no AoE knockback, and the substantial nerf of the focused warp blast cooldown doubling to 30secs a few patches ago did have a significant effect to stop the chained snare effect. All this not to mention the seemingly unfixable misfiring of the focused warp blast that happens far too often.

Termagants: Toxin sacs are one of the obligatory upgrades, but I cannot see your fix being ideal. Their initial dps is sufficient for very early game, and the upgrade scales them up to useful levels once T1.5 starts hitting the field. It is a bit shitty having an upgrade that is purchased every time, but I can't see a solution without giving them additional wargear/abilities to choose from. Gaunt scaling in very late game is an issue I agree on, though.

The AG warriors I'm unsure about. They have issues late game with survival with all that juicy plasma and power_melee around and I was keen for a survivability boost (especially after hp decrease a few patches ago), but this could be an interesting way to make 2xhorm builds a bit more common. Will have to see.

All that said, the GK pally/termie retreat is silly.

[Crewfinity]

Torpid, you always seem to be pushing this theory that zoanthropes are the most overpowered unit ever seen in this game. They are the ultimate glass cannon - can go down to a single volley of fire, or even to a single squad if concentration lapses for just a second. Powerful commander melee weapons can wipe a full hp zoan in 1 hit in retreat, and the teleporting FC is a bane of many. Their speed is super low too, meandering along slower than most infantry units in the game.

All of this is the significant tradeoff to the powerful artillery unit it is. Yes it can do big chunks of damage to grouped up low hp units, and yes it has a degree of flexibility, but it is not OP as you claim. It has no AoE knockback, and the substantial nerf of the focused warp blast cooldown doubling to 30secs a few patches ago did have a significant effect to stop the chained snare effect. All this not to mention the seemingly unfixable misfiring of the focused warp blast that happens far too often.

I believe you may be overlooking a few things in your analysis on zoanthropes

Zoanthrope is anti blob, does well against all infantry types, and can also do AV damage. it also has a snare. that's fantastic for an artillery unit to be so versatile, especially since its so cheap. additionally, it fires much faster than most other artiller units (PDev, blasstmaster, etc), and its shots hit instantly. that means no dodging. that's amazing, and can't be overlooked. it's damage is on the lower side of artillery units, but keep in mind that it benefits from ranged synapse from venom broods. keep in mind that it doesnt have to set up, another boon on an artillery unit.

It also has an energy shield which prevents weapon knockback, so jump troops trying to attack it can be crippling poisoned while the zoan backs off, not even being disrupted. That's awesome, and gives it more survivability than you're making it out to have.

And if all of that weren't enough, it gives (along with basic synapse) a health regeneration synapse aura. The apothecary has an aura like this, multiplying health regen of friendly units in radius 25 by 3. that's the passive for the healing focused hero.

That's scrub level.

The zoanthrope multiplies health regen of friendly units in radius 22 by 3.5 at level one. this jumps up to 5.25 at level 2, 7.875 at level 3, and 11.8125 at level 4. So when he's moving around in a blob full of nid ranged units, getting experience from his undodgeable shots, his aura is getting better and better, healing up all friendly nidlings at massive rates. all of this on a mobile artillery unit that can counter basically anything.

so yeah, its pretty good for 400/40

[xXKageAsashinXx]

I love how nowhere in that post did you mention that they do no friendly fire either. Just saying, that's also kinda important XD

[Hellstar]

- Eldar should be heavily more focused on mobility and guerilla warfare
- Chaos should be more about direct-damage and an ego-centric race that depends more on debuffs, rather than supportive abilities
- Space Marines should be more reactive and adapative to the battlefield
- Imperial Guard should be more heavily focused on controlling ground and having a mixture of mechanized armies.
- Grey Knights should be about controlling the flow of the battlefields and able to make quick-hard hits
- Tau can commit to long-range firefights and FORCE fights. This is to highlight the lore aspect of Mont'ka and Kauyon.
- Sistle of Battle would introduce the most control-oriented warfights in the game through-out their flame-favorable weaponry
- Orks are all about commiting to fights 24/7. They would have an overbundance of requisition to fully idealise this design
- Tyranids are all about being where you don't want them to be, and they would hit you hard, and relentless. Sharing a similliar trait to the orks in this regard.

I do want to very much encourage the publishing of this kind of stuff whenever and wherever possible. Not because you need to "explain yourself" or open yourself up to criticism or whatever. But simply because some of us have no idea what the themes of the races are or how to approach playing them, and this kind of thing is quite helpful (at least in theory) on how to approach it.

Speaking of which, don't know if you are looking for additional ideas or concepts or whatever, but (someone correct me if I am wrong) I believe one theme of orks in original dow was that all their units were at least "ok" in melee - like even a shoota squad would, all other things being equal, be able to out-melee any other non-melee squad of any other race. Not sure if this was carried over to dow2, but I don't think it was. Might be fertile ground to explore.

'Nids sounds like a perfect candidate for a "swarmy" concept. Then again, you might find that it smacks too much of zergs, so maybe not?

[Dark Riku]

Zergs are a copy of Tyranids ...

[egewithin]

...

Just write shorter things. This will bring banish all discussments and decrease the seriousness of the topic so much easyer to discuss anything. Also, if Caeltos is writing something long = he is angry or sad. And nobody in this forum has the right to do such thing.

[Hellstar]

...

Just write shorter things. This will bring banish all discussments and decrease the seriousness of the topic so much easyer to discuss anything. Also, if Caeltos is writing something long = he is angry or sad. And nobody in this forum has the right to do such thing.

???

Are you saying my post was too long? It appears shorter than most others here.

Are you saying it was too serious? It wasn't serious at all, it was casual comments.

Are you saying I made Caeltos angry or sad with something I wrote? Could you please quote the offending words I said?

[Hellstar]

Zergs are a copy of Tyranids ...

Yeah, and terrans are a (poor) copy of space marines. Hell, the name "zergling" obviously comes from "nurgling." Most starcraft concepts are rip-offs of 40k concepts.

[Wise Windu]

Well, StarCraft was originally supposed to be a 40k licensed game, supposedly, just like WarCraft was intended to be. But GW pulled the license part way through development for both, so they had to change some things. That was confirmed for WarCraft, not sure if the StarCraft rumor was ever confirmed.

[egewithin]

Terrans are not even a poor copy of SM. Marines sucks in melee.

[Atlas]

Agreed, Terran is actually closer to IG in this game than SM.

[Swift]

I don't see how Zerglings come from Nurglings, more like Rippers. Putting ing on the end isn't a GW only nuance.

So err, what are we meant to be talking about in this thread?

[Hellstar]

I don't see how Zerglings come from Nurglings, more like Rippers. Putting ing on the end isn't a GW only nuance.

You always have to disagree with anything I say, no matter how small or trivial it is, and if you can't do that, you take some other issue with my post, like saying I should read the OP before responding, or I should do this or do that. It's boring. Seems like you should have better things to do than stalk me on forums.

Having said that, it's obvious they took zerglings from nurglings (the name that is). 1) yes, the 'ing' on the end, 2) the base words nurg for nurgle and zerg for zerg, and 3) they ripped off many other things from warhammer 40k/dow, and 4) blizzard admitted it.

[Crewfinity]

Having said that, it's obvious they took zerglings from nurglings (the name that is). 1) yes, the 'ing' on the end, 2) the base words nurg for nurgle and zerg for zerg, and 3) they ripped off many other things from warhammer 40k/dow, and 4) blizzard admitted it.

except in lore the two are nothing alike... zerglings are definitely ripped off of tyranids. they arent little balls of pus, they're chitinous little beasties with lots of spikes and teeth. so tyranids.

just look at the two

gaunt:

[The extension jpg has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

and zergling:

[The extension jpg has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

[Hellstar]

zerglings are definitely ripped off of tyranids. they arent little balls of pus, they're chitinous little beasties with lots of spikes and teeth.

I agree. We aren't communicating.

They took **THE NAME**, repeat **THE NAME** from nurglings. They took the physical concept from tyranids (in fact they based zerg off tyranids). In both cases, they ripped off wh/dow.

Sheesh, what a stupid thing to bicker about.

EDIT: if you look where you quoted me, I specify **NAME**.