Strong/Weak MU 1v1

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Telos
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Strong/Weak MU 1v1

Postby Telos » Fri 19 Oct, 2018 2:46 am

Hey, I'm wondering if the experienced players can share what they think are the strongest MU in terms of heroes.

I know a few but there's a lot of gaps in my knowledge.
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Torpid
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Re: Strong/Weak MU 1v1

Postby Torpid » Fri 19 Oct, 2018 5:21 am

Apo vs CS is very hard for the CS. Apo also shits on the WSE.

CL vs other chaos heroes, CL wins.

LG is the best in IG mirrors.

IG in general vs nids is very brutal, but I think IQ in particular is monsterous.
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Re: Strong/Weak MU 1v1

Postby Atlas » Fri 19 Oct, 2018 10:27 pm

Warlock vs Chaos is pretty Warlock favored methinks.
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Toilailee
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Re: Strong/Weak MU 1v1

Postby Toilailee » Fri 19 Oct, 2018 11:31 pm

TM sucks in mirrors.

WB rocks in mirrors.

Sorc is good against eldar but eldar is good against chaos.

SM (particularly non TM) shits on sorc.

IG is strong vs nids.

Knob is good (relatively speaking) vs eldar.

Knob struggles vs chaos and apo.
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Telos
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Re: Strong/Weak MU 1v1

Postby Telos » Fri 26 Oct, 2018 4:01 am

It seems that the Warlock tends to be stronger in most MU's with a few exceptions to the Farseer and the Warpspider is almost never chosen. What are the cases where the Farseer or WS are better choices?

Is the Lictor always the weaker choice for nids in all MU's?
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Re: Strong/Weak MU 1v1

Postby Torpid » Fri 26 Oct, 2018 7:47 am

WSE is amazing vs IG and on very large maps.

I don't think FS is better at anything than warlock. Well, she has a better late-game, but the WL just is so much better in T1 that is all that matters in 1v1 and even in 3v3 most of the time you'd rather have a WL than a FS just for his immolator to counter beacons/nests/turrets, all of which are very powerful in 3v3.
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Asmon
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Re: Strong/Weak MU 1v1

Postby Asmon » Sat 27 Oct, 2018 3:04 pm

I'd say FS is better than WL against Chaos and SM, and arguably OM. Her wargears are much more cost efficient and make good answers to what your opponent throws at you (especially in late game), whereas WL's wargears are mostly increasing his potential, without creating new options (except for warpthrow). WL'll only be better in t1 if you play very aggressive.

Even against swarmy races and in spite of WL great aoe damage, FS also shines since Psychic Storm was added and guided WG are absurdly good.

Actually, since Guide is one of the best starting ability in the game, it's hard for WL or wse to compete. Not to mention FS gates are the best.

On another note, I think it's not a good idea to have a priori about mu. If you think you're favoured you might take it too easy and make mistakes, and if you think you're at a disadvantage, you'll tend to give up too quickly. Only mirrors can really be one-sided, otherwise at equal skill level any hero can beat any other one.
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Re: Strong/Weak MU 1v1

Postby Crewfinity » Sun 28 Oct, 2018 5:11 am

OM is pretty much shit against anything in this patch.

They have a few good/OP units like IST and purifiers, but ops and purgs are just fucking awful right now, which means they really dont have many options in t1.
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Re: Strong/Weak MU 1v1

Postby Telos » Fri 02 Nov, 2018 5:35 am

Asmon wrote:On another note, I think it's not a good idea to have a priori about mu. If you think you're favoured you might take it too easy and make mistakes, and if you think you're at a disadvantage, you'll tend to give up too quickly. Only mirrors can really be one-sided, otherwise at equal skill level any hero can beat any other one.


I don't necessarily disagree, but I think it's valuable to know what matchups are inherently favorable and which aren't and why. If I know a MU will be inherently unfavorable to me then I can anticipate it and perhaps come out on top. Or if I'm in a MU where I'm favored but don't know how to take advantage of that then it's kind of a waste.
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Cheekie Monkie
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Re: Strong/Weak MU 1v1

Postby Cheekie Monkie » Wed 28 Nov, 2018 8:45 pm

Apo > IG once hehas an opportunity to get the ball rolling. IG needs to capitalise the sent/map control game early on to really stand a chance. The librarian makes it particularly hard for IG to counter devs.

Apo > Orks, particularly WB also once he gets the ball rolling. MCB shuts down WB's ability to bully and heals through the rain of dakka once he reaches level 3+.

IT IS THE BANEWOLF makes a lot of MU's easier for IG.
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Re: Strong/Weak MU 1v1

Postby boss » Sat 01 Dec, 2018 12:45 pm

Cheekie Monkie wrote:Apo > IG once hehas an opportunity to get the ball rolling. IG needs to capitalise the sent/map control game early on to really stand a chance. The librarian makes it particularly hard for IG to counter devs.

Apo > Orks, particularly WB also once he gets the ball rolling. MCB shuts down WB's ability to bully and heals through the rain of dakka once he reaches level 3+.

IT IS THE BANEWOLF makes a lot of MU's easier for IG.



Idk how you can say apo beats orks and warboss out of all of them, orks are one of the few race that has the best dps from t1 onwards and vs a 600 hp hero that just = a force off in an eye blink. warboss can just stun the apo back and stunned apo not very useful. Tm and fc always been better vs orks.

Same goes for ig again idk how you can say apo good, lc and inq will just rape him straight away lord gen you have a better start but even that won't last long, only really way sm stand any chance vs ig is get a good t1 going and use it to bash otherwise come t2 you just lose to ig t2
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Re: Strong/Weak MU 1v1

Postby Toilailee » Sun 02 Dec, 2018 9:00 pm

boss wrote:Same goes for ig again idk how you can say apo good, lc and inq will just rape him straight away lord gen you have a better start but even that won't last long, only really way sm stand any chance vs ig is get a good t1 going and use it to bash otherwise come t2 you just lose to ig t2

SM have the worst time of all races vs double sentinels and can be baselocked in 5 minutes if it goes badly for them but after the 5 minute mark they're pretty solid vs IG.

Apart from double sents SM mainly struggle vs IG in long maps like calderis and levi hive where they're forced to go for the razorback to have enough field presence vs the chimera but razorback usually isn't what you want in T2 vs IG. In medium sized maps like jarilo's or wide maps like siwal or vulcan pits SM are like the second best race vs IG imo and apo in particular can snowball out of control fairly quickly if IG doesn't get a big enough advantage in T1.
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Cheekie Monkie
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Re: Strong/Weak MU 1v1

Postby Cheekie Monkie » Fri 07 Dec, 2018 6:03 pm

Toilailee wrote:
boss wrote:Same goes for ig again idk how you can say apo good, lc and inq will just rape him straight away lord gen you have a better start but even that won't last long, only really way sm stand any chance vs ig is get a good t1 going and use it to bash otherwise come t2 you just lose to ig t2

SM have the worst time of all races vs double sentinels and can be baselocked in 5 minutes if it goes badly for them but after the 5 minute mark they're pretty solid vs IG.

Apart from double sents SM mainly struggle vs IG in long maps like calderis and levi hive where they're forced to go for the razorback to have enough field presence vs the chimera but razorback usually isn't what you want in T2 vs IG. In medium sized maps like jarilo's or wide maps like siwal or vulcan pits SM are like the second best race vs IG imo and apo in particular can snowball out of control fairly quickly if IG doesn't get a big enough advantage in T1.

Pretty much this, though 3 GM on big maps like Ashes or Gorge can mean some really good early game IG map control. I also always swear by the librarian as his utility skyrockets particularly with Apo.

I must be doing something wrong, as my worst MU is by far a good eldar with good nade play.
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Sex - Murder - Art
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Re: Strong/Weak MU 1v1

Postby Sex - Murder - Art » Fri 07 Dec, 2018 10:10 pm

The snowball effect of Apo has a big IF situation. Vs all races; the more marines you have, the harder you become to deal with as Apo. It isn't a big deal for Orks or IG to fight against Apo early on with just scouts and Tacs. But, it becomes a really big problem after getting that second marine squad either another Tac or ASM.

Remember, Apo himself is not the main problem. The problem is about rest of his roaster. You know, stuff that he keeps alive.

boss wrote:Idk how you can say apo beats orks and warboss out of all of them, orks are one of the few race that has the best dps from t1 onwards and vs a 600 hp hero that just = a force off in an eye blink. warboss can just stun the apo back and stunned apo not very useful. Tm and fc always been better vs orks.

Same goes for ig again idk how you can say apo good, lc and inq will just rape him straight away lord gen you have a better start but even that won't last long, only really way sm stand any chance vs ig is get a good t1 going and use it to bash otherwise come t2 you just lose to ig t2


I would like to see your dakka when ASM jumps on you with Purification Rites on them. And anyway, Apo would perform much better compared to other SM heroes in T2 against IG. Apo can keep his army alive with buffs and shit. Neither TM nor FC are one-man-army in T2 and none of them are more effective than a well equiped T2 SM army with heal support.

Apo beating IG is not something new. Its not like 100% IG wins every time so stop whining about stuff.

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