Apo vs Lord General

Strategy and L2P topics.
newtonia
Level 1
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu 07 Jul, 2016 9:50 pm

Apo vs Lord General

Postby newtonia » Wed 24 May, 2017 2:08 am

what can Apo do against lord general who comes up with 1 senti and double gm?
sanguine isn't viable cause apo will just be bursted down, especially if 1.5 unit is up,
early asm take too long, usually good IG players know that lanning against apo sm means its a free bash
devs are also easily countered by catachan ole reliable and sudden charge of senti into stomp
both devs and asm is hard to play against dug-in ig (usually when you have both IG already has 2 1.5 units in position in either natural gen or close to it, if you're lucky he picked arty spotter but usually its catachan + hwt)
gun is too expensive, purification rites is impossible to pull off (shotgun blast or stomp)

In t2 you try to burst him down through application of knockback (plasma, whirlwind) but can be countered with flak jacket, also its detrimental to your asm
dreadnought easily zoned out by lascannon buy with sniper buff
same with suppression devs against st or even regular gm with sniper buff

Is double scout shotgun + purification grenade+sanguine only counter?
User avatar
Psycho
Level 3
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu 24 Dec, 2015 3:08 am

Re: Apo vs Lord General

Postby Psycho » Wed 24 May, 2017 3:20 am

I'm gonna assume this is 3v3.

After first tac, node power and gen into quick dev. Play extremely defensively, IG has a very strong start and apo sucks a LOT in the first engagement, a second of focus fire can kill your scouts or force a wasteful heal on your own apo; never engage if you can't get your tacs in cover and your apo and scouts at a safe distance, can't stress enough if it's an extremely laney map like Argus. Get apo bolter, otherwise your apo will be doing almost literally nothing, and with the bolter it can stay near the tacs for the heal aura while contributing with damage. It's expensive, yes, but the alternative is having him be dead weight save for his heal. Aim to bleed GM models and LG retinue, stun him with bolter if he gets too close but it won't do much due to the other models being able to move and tie you up in melee. If desperate, go for sniper on the first scout for added damage vs the senti and bleeding models, chances are if you need the shotgun ability vs IG you're fucked already, but be ready for those to get focused to hell and back with that awful power bleed. Purpose of dev is more as bait for your other things to not get ol unreliable'd/shelled like your tacs, but also punishing him if he makes mistakes.

From there, if you're lucky you might've gotten enough red for a tac drop, they do well in t1 due to kraken bolts also doing bonus damage vs the senti, with the scout sniper you might even force the GMs to repair it 24/7. They'll get eaten for breakfast come T2 with plasma GMs, but then again everything you have will anyways, unless you put them in heavy cover and/or get armor of the apothecarion to support the murderblob that's bound to get manti'd. You'll also have transitional AV in the form of the lascannon, so less need to spend 40 power for the missile launchers. Going double pdevs if you're on the contested lane isn't a bad idea, though you better be ready to be on the receiving end of endless manticores; to this day I still have zero clue how to get rid of a manti well behind their lines without tools like stealthed stormtroopers and the like, now that double nades doesn't kill them anymore.

In the early matchup you're basically trying to out-attrition the guys designed for attrition. It's an uphill battle. You're fucked if they go for multilas which forces not only flamers but also for your tacs to be out in the open to flame it down. This is merely what worked for me, mind you, I might've played vs relatively inexperienced IGs since I'm sure people like fr33man will just baselock to death regardless, but it should be a start for you to develop your own strategies as you see what fails and what doesn't.
User avatar
Impregnable
Level 4
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue 02 Apr, 2013 2:58 pm
Location: SEGMENTUM TEMPESTUS

Re: Apo vs Lord General

Postby Impregnable » Wed 24 May, 2017 3:51 am

+ on everything he mentioned

- Here are my 2cents. Try to use different hero. In a RTS, there are bound to be counters and some match ups are bound to be unfavorable and also some maps are bound to be unfavorable. If apo is bad in laney maps vs LG, then choose Techmarine or FC. If one build is bad, then come up with another that fairs better. Worse thing to do is doing the same thing repeatedly knowing you are going to lose. FC can put pressure on chimera, sent, manti using teleport fist combo. He can also do the same pressure by wearing terminator armor because you cannot be knocked backed or suppressed in trade for not having flesh over stell stun. Techmarine can be very good vs IG on laney maps because he can cover a huge choke point with a turret and also is very good at bleeding models in first engagement vs IG. Also can force purchase of detector using mines. Come T2 Plasma cannon shot + focus fire + techmarine mark target debuff can vaporize a GM squad without giving it chance to reinforce tank it.

- If IG is not LG, you can use whirlwind to the extreme. It neutralizes GM + chimera combo by not allowing them to deal out damage. Plasma cannon is a very useful too since it doesn't cost power and do not get affected by LC flare.
"Excalibur!"
"Excalibur!"
"From the United Kingdom!"
"I'm looking for heaven!"
"I'm going to California!"
"Excalibur!"
"Excalibur!"
Atlas

Re: Apo vs Lord General

Postby Atlas » Wed 24 May, 2017 4:10 am

I'll actually slightly dissent and say fast asm can def work vs LG. LG doesn't have the same anti-melee capability that Inq/LC does and asm work very well with apo as it is. Scout-Tac-Asm- Apo Sword - Flamer - Sarg mostly works fine in 3s. Your spare req can go into catching you up on gens if need be.
User avatar
Psycho
Level 3
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu 24 Dec, 2015 3:08 am

Re: Apo vs Lord General

Postby Psycho » Wed 24 May, 2017 4:35 am

You'd be looking at a 50 power initial investment, equal to catas + LG sergeant. This is also assuming that by the time you actually get that 50 power the IG doesn't bumrush your tacs with stomp at the ready and just drive you off the field, which everyone should be able to in a 2GM Senti w/stomp LG matchup vs apo + scout + tacs. You might even be looking at your power decaped by the time the ASM actually arrive, and flamer tacs are iffy enough with the LG tying them up while reinforcing his lost retinues.

The way it can work, however, it is you're in a 3v3 map where you're very well able to support other lanes and you're in a lane where you don't really have a natural power or much capping responsibility, like that one time I got casted in Kathari ruins in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_oz7NalnQo . Still, that isn't a good replay for me to show with how my opponent also just went LG 3GM into an attempted tech rush, allowing me to get ASM sanguine and flamer with absolute impunity.
User avatar
Impregnable
Level 4
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue 02 Apr, 2013 2:58 pm
Location: SEGMENTUM TEMPESTUS

Re: Apo vs Lord General

Postby Impregnable » Wed 24 May, 2017 5:20 am

Indeed true. We need to accept that this mod is balanced around 1v1 not team games. In 3s ppl clash with each other with all of their forces together in 1 spot. This makes huge difference balance wise.
"Excalibur!"
"Excalibur!"
"From the United Kingdom!"
"I'm looking for heaven!"
"I'm going to California!"
"Excalibur!"
"Excalibur!"
User avatar
Torpid
Moderator
Posts: 3536
Joined: Sat 01 Jun, 2013 12:09 pm
Location: England, Leeds

Re: Apo vs Lord General

Postby Torpid » Wed 24 May, 2017 12:28 pm

2x tac, asm is an amazing opener vs LG. Get vials + sanguine too because they absolutely annihilate catachans making them more or less useless, and sanguine just makes him a pain to kill and the extra melee charge helps him get in faster to support his ASM and hit those vials. The build scales very well in T2. You get stims then in T2 so ASM can do very well vs ogryns, then a dread, first melee till the ogryns are bled to pieces, then then when he gets more AV out you can swap to assault cannon and yourself get plasma devs and heavy bolter devs + a librarian to own him both at range and melee.

I think the MU strongly favours apothecary.
Lets make Ordo Malleus great again!
I_just_want_to_die
Level 0
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri 19 May, 2017 4:36 pm

Re: Apo vs Lord General

Postby I_just_want_to_die » Wed 24 May, 2017 5:25 pm

Vengeance Devs and Sniper Scout can zone sents and possibly heavily damage it along with catachans; you'll probably want to play defensively and stay near your power for t1. You could also try double Devs, or buy ASM to counter-engage. Harass GM with your sniper and bleed them. T2 get a dreadnought and asm if you haven't to tie up HWT. Assault cannon or claw destroy GM. Beware of Manticores tho, melta ST with Manti or Lascannon will destroy a lonely Dread. This usually works against me.
Don't forget vials, a good nade will force a retreat and that gives you ample time to take care of the sent
User avatar
boss
Level 3
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon 22 Aug, 2016 11:48 pm

Re: Apo vs Lord General

Postby boss » Wed 24 May, 2017 5:57 pm

I don't play much ig but I do play lord General from time to time you only really hope as apo is to go fast asm and support them as much as you can or your boned, lord general don't have easy counters but he can support cats to deal with them so yea, torpid builds only work in 1v1 cos ig cant blob a lot but in team games his fails hard tacs become useless come t2 cos most ig units can deal with them just gm alone with plasma guns and with lord general buff gg with the bleed you have, I have said this for some time apo is a very bad hero and the worst at supporting in the game just stick with tm or fc.
Forums great more stuff to talk about.

Return to “Strategy Discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests